Infra_Man99
Banned Idiot
daveman, elaborate your funny rebuttal of my statements and explain your economic claims about America's financial system otherwise I'll think you are filled with hubris or a troll and ignore you.
US Financial Crisis/Bailout, China's Role
- Thread starter FugitiveVisions
- Start date
No, IfraMan, no more freebies from me to this forum. The moderators don't appreciate it, the members don't appreciate it, so why should I offer my pearls to the swine?
I've said more than enough, and the likes of Crobato have used them well. Mission accomplished as far as sharing with a forum full of strangers is concerned.
Don't credit yourself too much, Daveman. I only post the articles to give people a more balanced viewpoint. You think one or two articles make up my viewpoint? I already saw what is going to happen years ago what a continued debt, deficits and expanded money supply will inevitably do.
Inframan, you want to put the blame entirely on Congress. Honestly I don't think the Congress is even in control of the situation, much less fully understand what's going on. A lot of these Congresspeople and Senators aren't any smarter than Palin on economics. When McCain said the "economy is fundamentally strong" just weeks before the curtain fell, just shows you the politicians are not in control, and don't even know what's going on.
Yes, a lot of the problem is due to the US government and their overspending. But the picture is far from complete. It also hinges on wrong deregulation (letting loose the standards) and at the same time, wrong regulation (making banks and quasi banks lend to people that have a greater credit risk, just because you want to help the poor). Its the worst from both the left and the right wing, and both are right to blame each other. After all, that's what is happening to the culture here; no longer a culture of responsibility, just a culture of blame and scapegoats.
Somehow you still miss the point on M3. It does not matter what the US Constitution says. It happened M3 is created and then expanded by the pyramid scheme of a financial system. The private sector is every bit to blame as the US government for the mess.
In a way, investment banks already have done so in the last decade through manipulations, machinations and clever instruments in the financial markets. Those financial whizzes are alchemists---creating money out of nothing. The fact is the US, both public and private sectors, consume more money far even surpassing the minted money supply which is M0. The amount of actual greenback money and coins printed, and those available through checking accounts, is less then one trillion. What happened is you're spending more than the real amount of money (M0) and you're financing those spending through an expanded, electronic money supply (M3) created through fancy financial instruments and abuses of the fractional reserve system.
Inframan, you want to put the blame entirely on Congress. Honestly I don't think the Congress is even in control of the situation, much less fully understand what's going on. A lot of these Congresspeople and Senators aren't any smarter than Palin on economics. When McCain said the "economy is fundamentally strong" just weeks before the curtain fell, just shows you the politicians are not in control, and don't even know what's going on.
Yes, a lot of the problem is due to the US government and their overspending. But the picture is far from complete. It also hinges on wrong deregulation (letting loose the standards) and at the same time, wrong regulation (making banks and quasi banks lend to people that have a greater credit risk, just because you want to help the poor). Its the worst from both the left and the right wing, and both are right to blame each other. After all, that's what is happening to the culture here; no longer a culture of responsibility, just a culture of blame and scapegoats.
Somehow you still miss the point on M3. It does not matter what the US Constitution says. It happened M3 is created and then expanded by the pyramid scheme of a financial system. The private sector is every bit to blame as the US government for the mess.
In a way, investment banks already have done so in the last decade through manipulations, machinations and clever instruments in the financial markets. Those financial whizzes are alchemists---creating money out of nothing. The fact is the US, both public and private sectors, consume more money far even surpassing the minted money supply which is M0. The amount of actual greenback money and coins printed, and those available through checking accounts, is less then one trillion. What happened is you're spending more than the real amount of money (M0) and you're financing those spending through an expanded, electronic money supply (M3) created through fancy financial instruments and abuses of the fractional reserve system.
News getting grimmer by the day after record unemployment figures. DHL is laying off and shutting some of its US operations. Circuit City just filed Chapter 11, and GM might need a financial bailout before the end of the year. AIG is going to need another !40 billion besides the ones it already spent.
China's $586 billion package was good news however, causing stock markets to Asia and Europe to surge. But we see the market go up and down all the time. Adjusted to PPP, China's package maybe the equivalent to $ 1 to 2 trillion dollars, even more, if applied to US measure. Sounds like China's version of the "New Deal".
China's $586 billion package was good news however, causing stock markets to Asia and Europe to surge. But we see the market go up and down all the time. Adjusted to PPP, China's package maybe the equivalent to $ 1 to 2 trillion dollars, even more, if applied to US measure. Sounds like China's version of the "New Deal".
Very true. Moreover, this will be looked back on as the day when China truly became a leader in the global economy. China is taking a very mature step in acting not just to save itself but also to save the world economy. And moreover no one but China could take this step, not the US, not the EU, not anybody. Only China is financially and fiscally strong enough to so this. The importance of that fact will not be lost on the world.
I think the main issue of the US economy is that it has become based on consumption and debt rather than savings and production. What do you guys think about a return to the gold standard? I don't really know enough about economics to be able to make a competent statement on that subject myself.
Whatever you say, I'm not interested in taking credit for other people's postings....
As for those who would like to blame this current crisis on the politicians or the bankers... well, the bankers and the politicians do deserved to get hanged, yes, for their diabolical plot that is paper money. However, the American people cannot escape blame. They can ask for mercy from the Almighty, but not justice, for justice will be more than the American people can handle. I don't recall hearing much, if any, complaints when inflation was raising stock and housing prices through the roof.
There is still nothing wrong with Treasuries, at least in the US, where when in comes to the dollar this is the most secure place right now. Unlike minted and printed money, they keep earning interest. So you are getting some money back to counter inflation. Treasuries is not the same as direct paper money. The US government actually has to pay interest to China, and that probably amounts to at least over 10 billion a year.
So you don't seem to understand anything at all that I'm not particularly talking about the dollar per se.
So you don't seem to understand anything at all that I'm not particularly talking about the dollar per se.
THe key point I think Finn is that although the figure is not so different (or even quite modest compared) from those being spent by the Central Banks of the USa nd EU countries, the Chinese money is being spent on real Investment and not simply the outrageous bailout of failed Political backers. If the Chinese Investment is a measure of the value of real Investment, then the bailout is a measure of real waste at tax payers expense.
RedMercury
Junior Member
Heck if you're worried about inflation, buy TIPS instead of regular treasury bonds. Of course, the CPI calculation is easily manipulated. Like I said before, even though the dollar was losing value through inflation, holding treasury bonds isn't the worst deal out there, there are other currencies with higher (net) depreciation.
Yes I think you could characterize this stimulus package as taking a step to "fight back" against recession whereas the Western countries are just doing damage control. That's where the leadership role comes in, and that's why this is politically significant for China.