US F/A-XX and F-X & NGAD - 6th Gen Aircraft News Thread

[Atomicfrog]

If those aircraft being tested from 2020 and onwards were actually just demonstrators/X-planes, it means they are already BEHIND both the J-36 and the J-50 programs, both of whom look like they are at the prototype stage. I doubt they could afford either the luxury of time or money to iterate a new version of the NGAD after 100 airframes.

Foremost they need to react to J-36/j-50 now because they exist adding new data/scenario to work on. It's more or less a blank design or they just throw away their main adversary out of equation to go faster and just to look like they are doing something clever.

 

[drowingfish]

In the same interview they said that the requirements for the F-47 have not changed and they went with the original design. And I don’t see how more competition is a bad thing?

The fact that they made no design change and just went with what they had years ago is a terrible sign. Surely the situation has changed since 2019, how could they choose not to review their design? This might be a case where the US just figured they would throw together a bunch of new-tech and call it NGAD, but if you look at the J-36, it was clearly designed for a certain type of operations. The Chinese knew what kind of war they want to fight and designed their fighter around that.

 

[sevrent]

The fact that they made no design change and just went with what they had years ago is a terrible sign. Surely the situation has changed since 2019, how could they choose not to review their design? This might be a case where the US just figured they would throw together a bunch of new-tech and call it NGAD, but if you look at the J-36, it was clearly designed for a certain type of operations. The Chinese knew what kind of war they want to fight and designed their fighter around that.

What? They spent over a decade with planning + tech maturation, flew demonstrators to prove out the tech. And you're saying they rushed it and shouldn't have gone through what they spent all this time planning for and instead scrap it for something new?

 

[sevrent]

If those aircraft being tested from 2020 and onwards were actually just demonstrators/X-planes, it means they are already BEHIND both the J-36 and the J-50 programs, both of whom look like they are at the prototype stage. I doubt they could afford either the luxury of time or money to iterate a new version of the NGAD after 100 airframes.

It depends on what they are iterating. But keeping a lot of the tech commonalities there reduces cost and time significantly. If the government went out of its way this much to ensure they own the IP/designs they're gonna make use of it as much as they can

 

[ACuriousPLAFan]

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TLDR - they flew X-planes, not prototypes.

The TL; DR of that article is something more like this:

This tells me they are not 100% satisfied with the F-47.
Which tells me they rushed into picking it.
Which tells me they had to compromised on somethings.
Which tells me they picked a cheaper option.
Which tells me the F-47 might not have the range (small size) and the superior stealth (canards) initially envisioned for the PCA part of the NGAD.

Who knows if USAF will have the money for these "increments" with the economic storm that's approaching.

Another noteworthy point from the article is that the F-47 is expected to cost at least twice that of the F-35, i.e. 160-180 million USD per piece.

Thar's definitely NOT being cheaper than the F-22 LMFAO, especially if the F-47 is J-XDS-sized (which is indeed probable). Trump is either reading whatever the USAF or White House staff gave him, or he's just being his usual self.

As for the increments, I understand it more as the "Blocks" we've seen on the F-35s and the preceding fighter jets of the US. It's not going to be "Boeing, LockMart and NorGru competing for new F-47 contracts every 5 years".

If those aircraft being tested from 2020 and onwards were actually just demonstrators/X-planes, it means they are already BEHIND both the J-36 and the J-50 programs, both of whom look like they are at the prototype stage. I doubt they could afford either the luxury of time or money to iterate a new version of the NGAD after 100 airframes.

Yes, they are indeed behind (if not at around the similar steps as China) in this regard, even if the EMD F-47 and F/A-XX are able to take flight within this year.

This is what many Westoid/Murican military techbros/pundits are still vehemently refusing to admit, which is kinda sad when you think about it. They would rather resort to believe that the J-36 and J-XDS are mere "vapourwares of paper-tiger Chicoms" and/or "not 6th-gens at all, we get there first!" than facing reality.

Literal ostrich behavior. The US of today is not the US back during the 1st Cold War.

It depends on what they are iterating. But keeping a lot of the tech commonalities there reduces cost and time significantly. If the government went out of its way this much to ensure they own the IP/designs they're gonna make use of it as much as they can

Pretty fat chance of the F-47 being able to enter service before Trump leaves the White House on January 2029.

 

[sevrent]

NGAD’s adaptive engines alone will take until 2027-28 to be completed. Chances of entry into service pre 2030 is very unlikely yep. 2030 to early 2030s is optimistic.

 

[Gloire_bb]

Another noteworthy point from the article is that the F-47 is expected to cost at least twice that of the F-35, i.e. 160-180 million USD per piece.

Thar's definitely NOT being cheaper than the F-22 LMFAO, especially if the F-47 is J-XDS-sized (which is indeed probable). Trump is either reading whatever the USAF or White House staff gave him, or he's just being his usual self.

That's much cheaper. Not even close to F-22 prices in modern USD (or USN Tomcats, which hold the mantle of the least reasonable fighter cost)

 

[Hyper]

The most interesting tidbit was that the USAF is going to keep competing NGAD. Its entirely possible that after 100 aircraft they'll compete the firms again for the next 100. They also seemed to imply that this incentivized the companies to be a bit more creative in their designs which has me curious. I really hope we get to see Lockmarts proposal eventually

It's a leverage against Boeing. A warning not to message up.

 

[Hyper]

NGAD’s adaptive engines alone will take until 2027-28 to be completed. Chances of entry into service pre 2030 is very unlikely yep. 2030 to early 2030s is optimistic.

XA102/103 are basically smaller versions of XA100/101. Down to 156-170 kN from 185-200 kN.

 

[drowingfish]

What? They spent over a decade with planning + tech maturation, flew demonstrators to prove out the tech. And you're saying they rushed it and shouldn't have gone through what they spent all this time planning for and instead scrap it for something new?

precisely, if you read what kendall had said, they had some designs, determined it was no good so they scrapped it. then trump came along suddenly its back on. this tells me that the decision making process is not deliberate. the Chinese had a very clear idea of what they wanted out of their aircraft, it does not appear to be the case with the US.