Ukrainian War Developments

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Vatt’ghern

Junior Member
Registered Member
Reports from my source, as i type:
1) Ukraine reports Russians troops landed in Kharkov
2) Battle raging now for a military hospital, unclear who has the hospital
3) Russian army is now in the vicinity of Balakleya, city southeast of Khakov and 50KM from Izyum.
4) Fire now reported in Odessa, unknown cause.
 

lube

Junior Member
Registered Member
Reports from my source, as i type:
1) Ukraine reports Russians troops landed in Kharkov
2) Battle raging now for a military hospital, unclear who has the hospital
3) Russian army is now in the vicinity of Balakleya, city southeast of Khakov and 50KM from Izyum.
4) Fire now reported in Odessa, unknown cause.
Trust nothing from Ukraine (or Russia but they've been kind of silent).
This is the 20th paratrooper attempt that they will wipe out with little casualties.
 

reservior dogs

Junior Member
Registered Member
Yeah in my hypothetical ceasefire deal Russia keeps de facto control over its current occupation zones. I don't think at this point Ukraine actually wants to govern Donbass and Crimea again, too much bad blood. And keeping the current occupation zones forever could be costly for Russia. So they can exchange formal recognition for de facto control somewhere else. Lifting of central bank and tech sanctions (the most damaging ones) must of course be part of the ceasefire agreement, so US and EU must be parties to the agreement. Of course, sanction can be reimposed, but EU and US must be aware that freezing central bank assets of a legitimate government is against international law (sovereign immunity) and I highly doubt they will reintroduce it in peace time.

Again, everything is purely hypothetical.
Once the Russians crossed the Rubicon, there is no going back. To the U.S., we would lose credibility if we lift sanctions and the Russians get to keep the two republics with no cost after invasion. The sanctions are not coming off unless it hurts the West too much or it no longer hurts the Russians. We want to strangle the Russians if we can.

For the Russians, the biggest cost is really the sanctions. It is hard to imagine that the Russian military will not defeat the entire Ukrainian army in time, even if they had to win in a horrible fashion. The Calderon in Eastern Ukraine should be closed by now. 60K of the best Ukrainian troops trapped there. If they leave part of Ukraine unconquered, it is hard to imagine the West will just let the sleeping dog lie and not stir up new unrest in that part of Ukraine and use it to arm the Russian controlled portion. Since the Russians already incurred the cost, they might as well get all the benefit, an entire Ukraine that is pro-Russia like in Belarus.

The Russians don't want to occupy Ukraine, but they can leave a very pro Russian government like it would be in Belarus. As long as they control the military by swapping in their own commanders, they will be able to dictate the fate of Ukraine without occupying it.
 

anzha

Senior Member
Registered Member
Wow. Here we are, at the end of day 6. Its that time to dump what's in the brain and onto the screen. All of you get to enjoy and it will be more fun than, well, nothing. This is my opinion and my opinion alone. No one else would want to touch it, not even with a Kamchatka to Rostov length pole.

Here we go!

1. Russia CONTINUES to win. They are beating back the Ukrainians bit by bit. Sometimes in not so small amounts. The inevitable is coming for Ukraine. It just has not happened yet.

2. The propaganda remains thicker than mud. Splattered and smeared all over. Whether its the messages by the Russians to everyone's phones in Ukraine claiming Zelenskyy has ordered a surrender or the Ukrainians making some very wild, wild claims, we are getting it thick. Please, give some critical thought to what you read. Likewise, be willing to accept what goes against your grain if it turns out to be true. Personal bias can be a hard thing to overcome. I actually have some faith in the community here that is possible.

3. I am going to call this out big time. There are some WILD claims by the Ukrainians right now. I mean, really, really wild. One was an enormous strike on equipment by everyone's favorite pet drone. 200 vehicles? Really? Show me legit pix. There are others. Some make my eyebrows go well past the ceiling. I really wish they'd stop. It's stupid and unhelpful to their own cause. We don't need more Il-76 mass shootdowns. We don't need more Ghost of Kiev. We need pix of real events.

4. That said, before we move into the concrete events, I also want to say there's a fair amount of information that is contextless. Like a battery or battalion of massive 152mm howitzers that seems to be completely abandoned. I don't see the markings of the Russians. Yet, the equipment around seems to be more consistent with the more modern Russian. I doubt the Ukrainians pilfered all of that together...makes no sense. That's just one example. I'd suggest placing those into a category of interesting, but not super meaningful until context can be placed.

4. Kherson has fallen! (sheepish look) Some awful events took place there in the park. I mentioned it earlier. Will the Russians finally lunge west now? Or is there a chance they may have to do the cha-cha back and forth with the Ukrainians there?

5. Mariupol is surrounded and under siege. the DNR and Russian Army are fighting their way inwards. This will be bloody. This will be awful. This will be a tragedy. Azov is there. If there is a singular good thing about the war it will be excising that tumor. It's a cancer I will not cry over when its said and done.

6. Kharkov has a major battle underway. The VDV is pushing into the city again. It seems to have been a flanking airborne attack with a solid push from that direction inwards, but I could be mistaken. There are reports of a hospital being attacked. If it has Ukrainian soldiers fighting from it, then its a legit target, as awful as that is. If there are none, then it is absolutely not. Will it fall soon or will this be an epic Leroy Jenkins again?

7. The Russians are pounding Kiev. However, there have only been a handful of serious thrusts inward and they have been smashed. Borodyanko and Bucha, for example. The long convoy everyone has been talking about has been going at a snail's pace. Some are claiming its running out of gas. Given there are supply trucks, even tankers, in the convoy that makes very little sense. The pace is very slow though. It's a head scratcher.

8. Poltava was attacked! This one terrifies me greatly for personal reasons, but the attack seems to have been a thrust that died fairly quickly. Multiple T-80s were recovered. They appear undamaged.

9. Sumy is still contested. Nearby Trostyanets has fallen to the Russians.

10. There's still no evidence of the two Russian pincers meeting to create the kessel for the eastern Ukrainian forces. I'm somewhat confused by this. if its really happening, then there should be evidence. Even with all the data being pumped out from online, I'm not seeing it. Why? Am I blind?

11. There are significant reports of supply and morale issues in the Russian army. We've seen the problems with fuel, but I've assumed the slowdown in operations was to let the logistics crew catchup and get everything rectified. Yet, the reports flow, much like the spice. There was a claim of contractors in Belogorod rioting (no evidence) and a unit in Crimea refusing orders. Again, pix, folks, or it didn't happen.

12. Belarus has not yet joined the fight much directly. They have moved men and equipment to the border, but as of writing, I've not seen reports of them crossing. The total troops there have doubled according to reports.

13. Ukraine. Still there. Still fighting. Kiev stands. There are increasing reports of the Ukrainians targeting fuel convoys in almost partisan tactics. If the fuel problems are real, this could bare serious fruit. Or not. The logistics bit could be a minor, temporary setback. Immobilizing the armies and then having the population hostile is a nasty, nasty place to be in.

14. Flight Global reported Su-25 and Su-24 strikes by the Ukrainians are still happening. I guess that's some consolation for the withdrawal of the offer (if it existed) for the Mikoyans from Poland et al. The one Su-27 was returned by Romania, so, yeah? That said, the TB2s and the remaining UAF seem to be still in the fight. Much to my surprise. They are not making runs over Kiev afaict now though or any other place where people seem to have modern cell phones, so, there is that. hmmm.

15. That takes us back to my little monkey organ to turn. Russian AF, where the fsck are you? We're seeing Su-35s and Su-34s, but...talk about a negligible impact they've had. And the Ukrainians are still in the air. c'mon. You are supposed to be terrifying. At least do a good jump scare! Otherwise you're going to get the kids thinking they can come after you with a Cessna and .22. yeesh.

16. Boeing and Airbus are ended support of Russian airlines. I'd suggest selling their birds to the Chinese or Turks. The US closed its air space to Russian aircraft. Exxon is pulling out of Russia after all the drama over Saklhin-1 (Hey, China, there's a gas field...) The US President is going in hard and fast for the Russian Oligarchs. I ... can't say this is the worst thing from anyone's perspective. American, European, Russian, Ukrainian. I think we found a topic most will like, even Putin. Unless Putin has failed the CPG Grey's Rulers for Rulers course, which case, this could suck for him. Maersk has stopped all shipping to Russia. Canada has closed all ports and territorial waters to Russian ships (psst, America, can you help with that, please. My navy needs a mild..update. Kinda like my fighters. I'm still waffling on what to pick though! thanx and sorry about that - Canada) Mastercard, Visa and American Express have blocked all Russian banks. Ford has shutdown in Russia.

17. So, weirdness. This is a weird war and we cannot leave this post without complaining about the weirdness. Construction companies have started recovering equipment abandoned for the Ukrainians. Protests have broken out where people are standing in the way of the Russians. Russians have fired machine guns in the air and fired tear gas, but people refused to budge. I have to wonder if the Russians won't get tired of this and start gunning them down. That's horrible, but...well... unarmed people vs stressed soldiers with machine guns. Not a place I'd recommend for a long life. There seems to be an additional weird bit about the Russians seemingly communicating over open, unencrypted radios. That would explain the ambushes, but...weird. Makes little sense despite the numerous reports. Finally, freakin commercial drones are being used to direct fire by everyone's least favorite nazis in Ukraine. Why in the world are the Russians not using their vaunted EW on that? They used more EW in 2014 than this. I mean, DJI makes great drones, but, c'mon, Russia!

Let me say it again. Russia is winning. The Russians are going to finish this off.

However, I'd have to say the Ukrainian chances of survival have risen minorly: 7%.

6 days or 144 hours is a lot longer than the 72 previously claimed it would take. The campaign isn't nearly over either. Ukrainian morale is not yet broken. Until it is.
 

OppositeDay

Senior Member
Registered Member
Once the Russians crossed the Rubicon, there is no going back. To the U.S., we would lose credibility if we lift sanctions and the Russians get to keep the two republics with no cost after invasion. The sanctions are not coming off unless it hurts the West too much or it no longer hurts the Russians. We want to strangle the Russians if we can.

For the Russians, the biggest cost is really the sanctions. It is hard to imagine that the Russian military will not defeat the entire Ukrainian army in time, even if they had to win in a horrible fashion. The Calderon in Eastern Ukraine should be closed by now. 60K of the best Ukrainian troops trapped there. If they leave part of Ukraine unconquered, it is hard to imagine the West will just let the sleeping dog lie and not stir up new unrest in that part of Ukraine and use it to arm the Russian controlled portion. Since the Russians already incurred the cost, they might as well get all the benefit, an entire Ukraine that is pro-Russia like in Belarus.

The Russians don't want to occupy Ukraine, but they can leave a very pro Russian government like it would be in Belarus. As long as they control the military by swapping in their own commanders, they will be able to dictate the fate of Ukraine without occupying it.

The sanction on Russia's central bank must be lifted. There is zero question about that. You will destroy the foundation of global finance system if you use indefinite central bank asset freeze as a purely punitive measure. The only question is whether to unfreeze the asset after a ceasefire deal or after a formal peace treaty. I think the first is better as a demonstration of good will. You can keep other sanctions, maybe. But central bank sanction has to go.
 

Kich

Junior Member
Registered Member
This place has become very civil ever since @sequ and others got banned. Nice.

Anyway so many interesting things is happening and lessons to study from. A few in my opinion.
  • Russia will recover diplomatically and economically from this. The West will slowly break ranks and come back to Russia once their sanctions reduce their pocket money and influence, and very importantly create the unintended consequences of fueling an alternative economic model, one led by China.
  • I partly blame western social media for all the over-reactions from the West. From a NFZ (madness) to an embargo on SWIFT (talk about stabbing yourself through your chest to stab an enemy behind) to lending fighter jets (LOL talk about absurd ). These European want to one-up each in proving to the mobs on social media who has the most righteous anger. These western leaders are idiots cause now many countries--mostly China--are seeing what can happen to them. They will diverge from the dollar and euros at a faster rate. For example, FIFA is a global sports entity but to think Europeans and two North American countries can get a country ban is amazing. What about the Saudis on their war with Yemen or Britain when it went to war with Egypt or US on the second war with Iraq. No one talked about banning US from world sports events.
  • India. It will be interesting to watch them. I sense a crack in their relationship with QUAD.
  • Once Ukraine falls to Russia, it will increase Russia's commodity leverage.
  • Expats in western countries are not safe. Or their money and assests aren't. LOL.
  • Finally nukes. Having nukes and lots of them guarantees you greater freedom than I realize. I am 100% certain there would a US-led intervention agaisnt Russia if it weren't for them. Even if Russia had a very strong military with lots of 5th gen fighters and advanced drones and AI-led forces. Nukes are the ultimate guarantors.
  • So many more but I don't want to diverge this thread.
It will be interesting to study this new order being formed. 2-22-2022 will go down as a pivotal day in human history.
 

NeutralWarrior

Junior Member
Registered Member
Please note video at 0.22 seconds.

Chinese Embassy not only evacuating Chinese nationals, but also their "Anglo-discriminated" Indian neighbor. Note the Indian flag in one of the evacuees in the video at 0.22 secs.

That's exactly how a global power should behave, well done China. :cool:

 

Sardaukar20

Captain
Registered Member
Please note video at 0.22 seconds.

Chinese Embassy not only evacuating Chinese nationals, but also their "Anglo-discriminated" Indian neighbor. Note the Indian flag in one of the evacuees in the video at 0.22 secs.

That's exactly how a global power should behave, well done China. :cool:

Congratulations to China. That is a true example of a civilized superpower.

But some harsh truths. Unfortunately the Indian media is not gonna report this. And if the situation was reversed in the future, its unlikely that India would do the same for China.
 
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