Ukrainian War Developments

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Suetham

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US and NATO countries certainly violated Serbia's sovereignty by forcefully broke away Kosovo from Serbia. So why is Russia any worse than UK and US etc.?

You can't ask for much consistency from the West, especially from the Americans. The US left the ABM treaty of the INF, supported the Kosovo independence resolution in 2008, left the JCPOA treaty on Iran's nuclear weapons, does not respect the Minsk Protocol signed in 2014, does not support any resolution to ban arms in the space, invaded Syria and Iraq without passing any UN resolution.

The US and the West simply don't even respect the world order they created after World War II. In terms of violating treaties and agreements, Russia can be interpreted as a "holy" nation compared to other nations, even more so the US and Europe.

A good summary of the Crimea issue for China:
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Shifting the subject and aiming at the bilateral Russia-Ukraine issue, the West is running a publicity campaign that I haven't seen for a long time around this supposed Russian "invasion" in eastern Ukraine. It appears that Russia simply decided to attack Ukraine in January or February 2022 with over 175,000 troops.

Satellite photos showing Russian movement:
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The US believes there is an increase in troops near the Ukrainian border, but no significant movement has been tracked through open sources. Assertions about Russian troop concentrations are rather vague. In any case, by the time the invasion preparations reach a certain stage, we would see large formations of troops moving close to the Ukrainian border. And we've seen this many times already (with much less media and diplomatic attention from the West). This time around, we see much quieter Russian moves that could be interpreted as preparations of some kind for action in Ukraine (but might not be) and we see enormous attention to this from the Western press and political circles. It looks weird.

Meanwhile, behind the scenes, an anonymous State Department source is quoted as saying that Ukraine has been told NATO membership is unlikely in the next decade. Biden after the conversation with Putin, declared that Ukraine should respect the Minsk accords, while Zelensky affirms that the Donbass situation will not freeze, this demonstrates that the Ukrainian president wants to drag NATO into a confrontation against the Russians, but the West is not falling into the conversation of Ukrainians. The Ukrainian Army feels strong because they received the Javelins anti-tank missiles and Bayraktar drones, Ukrainian troop morale is at the top due to the delivery of these systems, even with the US Defense Secretary refusing to send more equipment to Ukraine, even with the Ukraine's defense secretary begging Austin to send equipment during a visit to the Pentagon.

The West talks a lot about the concentration of Russian troops on the Ukrainian border, but it does not talk about the position of the Ukrainians. The Ukrainian Army is close to the Donbass front line, with more than 100,000 soldiers, which would be equivalent to half the national army, Zelensky simply does not have the courage to advance because he has not yet received a green card from the West and a promise of military aid if things don't go as planned, the rotation of Ukrainian troops is much higher from the front line to Donbass than Russian troops on the Ukrainian border, and even the number of Russian troops near Ukraine is not at its highest level. 2021.

Zelensky simply wants to violate the Minsk agreement by invading Donbass ending the autonomy that was given in the protocol signed in 2014, the Russians reacted to this and now there is an intense and continuous tracking of Russian troops and nobody talks about the advance of Ukrainian troops.

Finally, in recent years, I have seen many published reports of Ukrainian artillery moving near rebel-held areas. A war continues to rage with Russia, apparently continuing to provide enough support for the breakaway regions of Lughansk and Donetsk to keep them afloat.

Sources:
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Suetham

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Straight from the Chinese Foreign Ministry's mouth.

The Chinese Vice Foreign Minister Le YuCheng already told the Ukrainian Deputy Foreign Minister that China does not recognize the illegal occupation of Crimea.
Sorry, but I had to laugh about it. Your attempt here to legitimize your earlier flawed argument is laughable.

First fact - I don't think you read the news.

Second fact - It did not come straight from the mouth of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of China. The conversation between the diplomats was on Facebook and the Ukrainian diplomat "claims" that the Chinese diplomat claimed this for him on the social network. Lie is a recurrent use among Ukrainian politicians, so far this has not been confirmed, only the Ukrainian diplomat who said and analyzing the pragmatic Chinese approach, I very much doubt that the Chinese claimed exactly so.

Third fact - I suggest you look for other sources. The Ukrainian government wanted China not to recognize the annexation of Crimea, China openly responded that this is an internal matter between Ukraine and Russia and that any attempt to create tension between China and Crimea would be unacceptable. China continues to partner with Crimean companies despite the Russian annexation.

Fourth fact -
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This source simply refutes what you said earlier and confirms what I said in the second fact. Where is this Chinese diplomat's statement in that source?

I advise you to stop here.
 

Phead128

Captain
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
The conversation between the diplomats was on Facebook and the Ukrainian diplomat "claims" that the Chinese diplomat claimed this for him on the social network.

Doesn't look like a conversation between diplomats on Facebook to me. Looks like a ZOOM diplomatic conference.
1639168750727.png
On April 15, 2021, Vice Foreign Minister Le Yucheng and Ukrainian Deputy Foreign Minister Yevheniy Yenin held video consultations between the two ministries.
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Get your facts straight before accusing others of not doing proper research.

Ukrainian diplomat "claims" that the Chinese diplomat claimed this for him on the social network. Lie is a recurrent use among Ukrainian politicians, so far this has not been confirmed, only the Ukrainian diplomat who said and analyzing the pragmatic Chinese approach, I very much doubt that the Chinese claimed exactly so.

Judging by China's abtaination in UNSC resolution condemning Crimea annexation, I wouldn't be surprised if China privately doesn't support Russia blatant annexation attempts since it is too obvious violation of international law. China also doesn't recognize the "Crimean Referendum" to "join Russia vote" too, since it sets an poor precedence for independence movements in Hong Kong, Xinjiang, and Crimea if they can suddenly hold a referendum on independence or joining a foreign power.
Third fact - I suggest you look for other sources. The Ukrainian government wanted China not to recognize the annexation of Crimea, China openly responded that this is an internal matter between Ukraine and Russia and that any attempt to create tension between China and Crimea would be unacceptable. China continues to partner with Crimean companies despite the Russian annexation.

Great, now provide these sources please that suggest China recognizes Crimea as part of Russia and not Ukraine. I will be waiting....
 

solarz

Brigadier
Straight from the Chinese Foreign Ministry's mouth.

The Chinese Vice Foreign Minister Le YuCheng already told the Ukrainian Deputy Foreign Minister that China does not recognize the illegal occupation of Crimea.


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Uh no, that's just what the Ukrainian side says the Chinese side said.

I highly doubt that's what the Chinese side said.
 

Suetham

Senior Member
Registered Member
Great, now provide these sources please that suggest China recognizes Crimea as part of Russia and not Ukraine. I will be waiting....
You're wanting me to prove something that just doesn't exist to be proven and neither can you prove that the Chinese don't recognize the Russian annexation of Crimea, because the Chinese abstained from the vote and reneges on either side.

About the third fact that I said earlier, read the article: Source:
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You don't accept Russian font? All well. Source from Ukraine:
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Another source on Ukraine and China relationship:
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Suetham

Senior Member
Registered Member
Doesn't look like a conversation between diplomats on Facebook to me. Looks like a ZOOM diplomatic conference.
View attachment 79825
On April 15, 2021, Vice Foreign Minister Le Yucheng and Ukrainian Deputy Foreign Minister Yevheniy Yenin held video consultations between the two ministries.
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Right. Translation problem. There was a post on Facebook, but the conversation was through some other teleconference program.
Get your facts straight before accusing others of not doing proper research.
Provided. Right up.
Judging by China's abtaination in UNSC resolution condemning Crimea annexation, I wouldn't be surprised if China privately doesn't support Russia blatant annexation attempts since it is too obvious violation of international law. China also doesn't recognize the "Crimean Referendum" to "join Russia vote" too, since it sets an poor precedence for independence movements in Hong Kong, Xinjiang, and Crimea if they can suddenly hold a referendum on independence or joining a foreign power.
Assumptions. I don't work with hypotheses, but with facts. No facts you posted corroborate the attempt to put that China does not recognize Crimea as an integral territory of Russia, nor can I prove that China recognizes Crimea as a territorial part of Russia.
Great, now provide these sources please that suggest China recognizes Crimea as part of Russia and not Ukraine. I will be waiting....
Again. Right up.

By the way, about the recurrent lie on the Ukrainian side that I told, before you ask me for a source as well. Read here:
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We are still waiting for the Russian side to cross the Ukrainian border with tanks.
 

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
Straight from the Chinese Foreign Ministry's mouth.

The Chinese Vice Foreign Minister Le YuCheng already told the Ukrainian Deputy Foreign Minister that China does not recognize the illegal occupation of Crimea.


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That is not straight at all. It is one person says another person said. It is a 2nd hand mouth at best. A lie at the worst.

And now in your mind an one-sided facebook post is the standard procedure of state diplomacy than an UN vote?
 

Bellum_Romanum

Brigadier
Registered Member
Doesn't look like a conversation between diplomats on Facebook to me. Looks like a ZOOM diplomatic conference.
View attachment 79825
On April 15, 2021, Vice Foreign Minister Le Yucheng and Ukrainian Deputy Foreign Minister Yevheniy Yenin held video consultations between the two ministries.
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Get your facts straight before accusing others of not doing proper research.



Judging by China's abtaination in UNSC resolution condemning Crimea annexation, I wouldn't be surprised if China privately doesn't support Russia blatant annexation attempts since it is too obvious violation of international law. China also doesn't recognize the "Crimean Referendum" to "join Russia vote" too, since it sets an poor precedence for independence movements in Hong Kong, Xinjiang, and Crimea if they can suddenly hold a referendum on independence or joining a foreign power.


Great, now provide these sources please that suggest China recognizes Crimea as part of Russia and not Ukraine. I will be waiting....
What's your source of consternation and angst with Russia? I just have made this observation that you find Russia wholly objectionable - is this a fair thing to characterize your views on Russia.
I get the impression that you'd rather have the Chinese reset it's relationship with the west, more specifically with America - if there's a remote possibility - than to have a continued charade of a relationship with Russia. What's your rationale?
 
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