Ukrainian War Developments

Status
Not open for further replies.

Lapin

Junior Member
Registered Member
It took up 1/3 of post space which is significant, so can you move or replace that portion? I'm not saying that you're necessarily wrong but it does add confusion.
False. My post has 44 lines. My comments on the Taiwan situation are only in the last three lines.
3 / 44 = 6.8%, which is far less than 1/3 of the post that you claimed.

I cannot edit the post more than five minutes after it has been submitted.
 

Deino

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
At the end of the day, this is about Russian security concerns, less about moral outrage. The Neo Nazis inside Ukraine is a threat to Russian security. The Nazis inside Russia is not.


And that's an reasonable excuse for all that war and murder against civilians!? :oops:
 

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
False. My post has 44 lines. My comments on the Taiwan situation are only in the last three lines.
3 / 44 = 6.8%, which is far less than 1/3 of the post that you claimed.

I cannot edit the post more than five minutes after it has been submitted.
You wrote quite a bit about "Chinese nationalists" as context to the Taiwan comment. This took up the last 4 paragraphs. Can we narrowly focus on Ukraine and Russia here, and leave China/Taiwan comments for that thread?
 

Gloire_bb

Captain
Registered Member
And that's an reasonable excuse for all that war and murder against civilians!? :oops:
Wars are always like this. Re-read, for example, Flavius abt the Judean war.
There is a reason why the first damn lines of the UN charter were written the way they were.

In the end, when law and diplomacy fails, it gets this ugly.
Military experts should be concise about this - because this is what they (we) are talking and writing about. Even if they(we) are just talking about equipment, planes, numbers or legal matters of wars.

Making a sudden Pikachu face (oh, it's horrible) is simply cynical.
 

Lapin

Junior Member
Registered Member
You don't have any Crimean/Donetsk/Luhansk friends, don't you?
They could've told you another aspect of this 'might makes right' story.
First of all, 'might makes right' is a general principle, which is independent of any particular local situation.

I would make a distinction between Crimea and Donetsk / Luhansk.
Crimea (with a Russian majority) held a referendum and approved of joining Russia.

I have an ethnic Russian friend whose aunt lives in Crimea and approved of it joining Russia.
She strongly opposes Russia's war on Ukraine, which she believes will make Russia weaker, not stronger,
in addition to being cruelly unjust toward Ukraine's people.
 

sheogorath

Major
Registered Member
Contrary to your apparent attempt at a denial, you are making an ad hominem attack upon another writer because
you presume that he's an American. Note that not everyone now in the USA is or wants to become a US citizen.
Don't care. You benefit either way from the Pax Americana and its effect around the globe, particularly the third world.

Then only exception to this being non-whites, who are still largely segregated and treated as second class citizens at best.

f he's a US citizen, you apparently presume that he must be an unconditional supporter of US foreign and military policies.
In reality, a significant number of Americans disapprove of much, perhaps most, of US foreign and military policies.

They might diaspprove all they want but they do jackshit to change any of it other than to vote every 4 years for the same shit of slightly different flavor and then throw up their arms when either they don't win or whomever they choose, does the same same thing the other party does and go "oh well, I did everything I could".

And the rest of us have to put with the consequences of it. The average american is complicit by omission at best.

Heck, they barely do anything to change the stuff that actually affects them as it is.

Why would you apparently presume that? The most likely reason seems to be that you yourself are a fanatical nationalist
who presumes that everyone else must be like-minded for their tribe.

I'm not a nationalist. I just hail from a third world country that has had to deal with american bullshit for far too long, including people thrown from planes into the sea with chains around their feet for being to "lefty"

Would you argue that Noam Chomsky, for instance, has no moral right to make any criticisms of foreign or military policies?

He doesn't, either. He has validated plenty of foreing policies atrocities in his spare time and has been quite lukewarm on many others and at the end of the day, he really hasn't done anything to change any of it, just throw up his arms like everybody else and go "that's bad, mmmmmmmkay?".

And I'm done with this subject in this thread. Not interested in keeping derailing it and humoring your faux "both sides are equally bad".

To gringo and gringo-enablers I apply Mao's "No investigation, no right to speak" but "no organizing and actually fighting against american foreing policy, no right to moralize others"
 

Lapin

Junior Member
Registered Member
You wrote quite a bit about "Chinese nationalists" as context to the Taiwan comment. This took up the last 4 paragraphs. Can we narrowly focus on Ukraine and Russia here, and leave China/Taiwan comments for that thread?
I wrote about apparent 'Chinese nationalists' in the context of their zealously supporting Russia's war on Ukraine.
Can you not understand that the Taiwan situation is a different context?

Do you believe that Chinese nationalists are so narrow-minded that they can think only of Taiwan and nothing else?
 

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
I wrote about apparent 'Chinese nationalists' in the context of their zealously supporting Russia's war on Ukraine.
Can you not understand that the Taiwan situation is a different context?

Do you believe that Chinese nationalists are so narrow-minded that they can think only of Taiwan and nothing else?
Chinese nationalism is irrelevant for a Ukraine vs Russia conflict.
 

Abominable

Major
Registered Member
Even so, I cannot predict what a leader will do in the end. But for now, it’s clear to me that Putin will cling to power and blame everyone around him. But every day the war goes on, Putin gets weaker. Ukraine should not be able to resist, NATO should not be united, American economic warfare should not be so powerful. Putin is growing more desperate. He has mumbled about nuclear weapons, the sign of utmost desperation. But he knows he and anyone he may love will die in a nuclear exchange. Even if he is prepared to commit suicide rather than capitulate, he knows that the order to launch must go through several hands, and each of those hands knows that the counterstrike will kill their loved ones. Therein lies the weakness of nuclear war: Retaliating is one thing, initiating another. Putin trusts few people, and he doesn’t know how reliable anyone would be in this situation – nor what the Americans might do if they saw preparation for a Russian launch.

If Putin gives up his position, he is compromised, and perhaps lost. The buzzards are circling. So he must continue to fight until he is forced out and someone else not responsible for the disaster takes over and blames it all on Putin. I think that this can’t end until Putin is pulled from the game.

This is not the only outcome. Ukraine might collapse. Russia might collapse. The Russian army may devise a strategy to win the war. A settlement that is respected might be reached. All of these are possible, but I don’t see much movement in any of these directions. A political end is what I would bet on, with the Russians taking the short end of the stick. I wouldn’t have thought this on the first day of the war, but I think this is likely the shape of the last day.
I can't believe people like Friedman are taken seriously in Washington. "Don't worry about Russia's nukes, someone in the chain of command will refuse to press the button." If it was like that, why was there a cold war?

He also seems to be ignorant of the public sentiment that's gripping Russia right now. The western boycott war against Russian culture was bad enough, now Russian media has reported Ukrainian war crimes and the Russian public are incensed. For the first time, you've got people complaining about Putin's inaction gaining prominence. A few years ago Khadyrov was considered to be crazy Chechen warlord, he's currently being taken very seriously by Russian people far more than anything Putin is saying right now. A few months ago Medinsky was seen as a staunch nationalist, he's now seen by the Russian public as a weak liberal.

If Putin resigns or steps down, who does he think is going to take over? To me it's like these people in Washington want a nuclear war, they can't be this incompetent.

This isn't like Afghanistan where Russia gave up when things weren't working out. This is widely considered to be a battle on home territory for the existence of Russia. The two sides are nowhere near close to agreeing on anything. There won't be any negotiated settlement, and there certainly won't be negotiations between Putin and Zelensky.

There is only going to be one outcome of this war, a total victory of Russia over Ukraine. If things are going bad, Putin (or whoever replaces him) will use every weapon in his arsenal to get what he wants. No one in the west seems to have figured this out yet.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top