Ukrainian War Developments
- Thread starter james smith esq
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It seems not really withstanding the NLAW first stage hit from re-watching the video
(I noticed a fire coming out of the lower of the turret emplacement)
Recent Southfront update:
I was generalizing. I am not familiar with the details of Tor-M1 to answer this question. Many older radars from as late as the 90s can be fooled by these techniques. This will spoof N001 type radars on the Su-27. It will also spoof older US radars: there was a report from the Gulf War of a Mig-25 doppler notching the USAAF F-15C and disappearing from its radar.
From what I understand, range also plays a role as it becomes progressively more difficult to spoof the radar as the distance becomes shorter.
Furthermore, similar maneuvers can be used to defeat pulse doppler guided missiles (especially ARH).
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The morning commute in Ukraine seems to have a few quirks
The thing about Optical tracker is that you will have less situational awareness with it.
Optical trackers are supposed to be used with target information fed from another source or in condition of noise jamming with Strobe generation which indicate target relative position.
and it's not just doppler notch issue but the fact that there are birds and any other low velocity targets. This has to be filtered out, for example the 5N63S of S-300PS series have minimum target detectable speed of 125 km/h anything less will be considered as birds or nonmoving and thus filtered out. So a TB-2 or others can fly less than that speed and wreack havoc. Also there is a function of target speed Vs "improvement factor" for pulse doppler or MTI radar. as depicted in this graph.
I'm dealing with it here along with the source.
Optical trackers are supposed to be used with target information fed from another source or in condition of noise jamming with Strobe generation which indicate target relative position.
and it's not just doppler notch issue but the fact that there are birds and any other low velocity targets. This has to be filtered out, for example the 5N63S of S-300PS series have minimum target detectable speed of 125 km/h anything less will be considered as birds or nonmoving and thus filtered out. So a TB-2 or others can fly less than that speed and wreack havoc. Also there is a function of target speed Vs "improvement factor" for pulse doppler or MTI radar. as depicted in this graph.
I'm dealing with it here along with the source.
What is the extent of Western analysts' coverage and analysis of the battle of Mariupol?
plawolf
Lieutenant General
There is a general misconception thanks to Hollywood that all guns are precision sniper rifles. In reality, different guns have different accuracy levels, and anti-aircraft guns are not precise by design.
The general principle with small cal AA guns is that you throw rounds in a spread pattern tight enough to be aimed effectively, but loose enough that your rounds cover a much bigger area at the intended optimal engagement range to maximise your hit chance while still achieving enough hits to have a reasonable chance to bringing down aircraft.
The issue is the vast size discrepancy between dronesand manned aircraft.
A good analogy would be clay pigeon shooting.
You can be a world champion shooter and can hit 99.9% of clays, but your kill rate is still going to approximate zero if you were asked to shoot at flies with your shotgun at the same range as you normally shoot clays.
The other aspect that makes it worthwhile using missiles rather than taking pot shots with AA guns all day long is time.
Those drones are not there taking candid photos of your misses sunbathing. They are there acting as spotters for enemy forces. The more time you allow them over your position, the greater the chances of your position and troops getting hit by enemy long range weapons such as artillery or missiles or MRLS or your forward troops getting ambushed.
Sure, it’s not economical, but lives are worth a lot more and it’s a good deal to shoot at drones with SAMs if it can help save lives of your troops. Besides, with the Ukraine air forces effectively destroyed, its not like they need those SAMs for anything else right now do they?
Indeed. It's not that these radars cannot detect the TB-2 as many people on Reddit/Twitter have speculated. They can detect it, but they struggle to tell it apart from environment clutter, as you described.
It takes a radar with digital processing and better control of sidelobes to effectively deal with slow moving targets, although small DJI like drones still present a challenge as they are not trivial to tell apart from birds. Five years ago someone managed to land and take-off a DJI Phantom undetected from the UK's Queen Elisabeth aircraft carrier: . Although, in its defense, the carrier was docked so out of safety reasons would not normally operate its main radars.
One implementation of a modern anti-drone radars uses micro-doppler to detect the rotation of drone propellers to disambiguate them from birds.
NCTR using such modulations have been around for a while. notable application was APG-63 original one and N011M Bars. Still it requires the radar to detect the propeller which implies long range tracking might be difficult.
The thing is that one can actually reduce the threshold for the speed manually. In cost that tracking might need to be done also manually which reduces the efficiency of the system.
I might not have the best eyes, but his face looks photoshopped
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