Ukrainian War Developments

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solarz

Brigadier
Per shot, lasers should be cheaper. It should be more accurate: no windage and PTS can lock quite well. Lasers above 100k can be used against more than UAVs (155mm artillery shells have been toasted, frex)

That's a discussion for another thread.

Ammo for laser is electricity, which in this case would be fuel for the onboard generator. Your logistic train would already have to handle fuel so it fits right in. Fuel trucks can easily deliver the fuel and pump it into the fuel tank of this vehicle. If it used an autocannon than resupplying it would be more complicated.

Using electricity also has some interesting applications for the future: if in the future charge stations for electric cars become so common that every street lamp post have them you may be able to miniaturise the system even further or stretch out the onboard fuel for longer by plugging in whenever possible.

But if we're talking about portable drones for recon, using truck-sized countermeasures seem very unwieldy.
 

Coalescence

Senior Member
Registered Member
It is not a matter of preference. You go to war with the resources and limitations you have. I am sure the Russian military is quite aware of the shortcomings they have, much better than you or I do. Still, if you decide to go to war, you will choose a strategy that allow you to win with the resource at your disposal. This means a fast war was never realistically in the cards. The only kind of war they can fight was a slow war of attrition.
All these talks about slow war of attrition whether its good for their military objectives, that I wonder what benefit and cost this slow war has politically and economically for both EU, Russia and their allies. The disruption in the pricing market for commodities and energy seems to have given many countries that are allied with Russia some leverages in negotiation, like Venezuela and Iran, and I read that some people here thinks that if Russia cuts natural gas and oil export to EU, then the Arab states would follow soon after in order to maximize their pressure for negotiations between EU and US. How important is Ukraine's export to the functioning of the world's economy, because I'm sure most of their industries got disrupted by the war.

If the war was settled quickly, I wonder how different is the negotiation position every country would be. As I think the EU could just pull some excuse to normalize trade with Russia again, and return to their old strategy of playing both sides for maximum benefit.
 

reservior dogs

Junior Member
Registered Member
All these talks about slow war of attrition whether its good for their military objectives, that I wonder what benefit and cost this slow war has politically and economically for both EU, Russia and their allies. The disruption in the pricing market for commodities and energy seems to have given many countries that are allied with Russia some leverages in negotiation, like Venezuela and Iran, and I read that some people here thinks that if Russia cuts natural gas and oil export to EU, then the Arab states would follow soon after in order to maximize their pressure for negotiations between EU and US. How important is Ukraine's export to the functioning of the world's economy, because I'm sure most of their industries got disrupted by the war.

If the war was settled quickly, I wonder how different is the negotiation position every country would be. As I think the EU could just pull some excuse to normalize trade with Russia again, and return to their old strategy of playing both sides for maximum benefit.
Yes, good points. It is difficult to see how the EU can make the transition away from Russian energy without a very messy and prolonged process. During this time, the Russians can always screw with the EU by terminating their energy export. EU would face some pretty stark options at that point. More industries will flow out of the EU. The Russians can even selectively target certain EU countries like Germany and France.
On the other hand, I wonder how much self determination the EU really has on this matter?
 

Mohsin77

Senior Member
Registered Member
Nevertheless inefficient it may be, you still need something like this on the battlefield. Thanks to a certain Chinese company the world is flooded with small drones that hold camera good enough for military applications. Both sides in this conflict are using them and you will never take them all down if you try to swat them with conventional SHORAD.

now THAT is a true salesman.

First sell one thing, then sell the other thing as a 'necessity' to neutralize the first thing.

SELL ME THIS PEN!. How To Be A Badass Salesperson! | by Kenney  Erimakonosine | Medium



Swatting down a few drones isn't the bigger problem. The real problem is saturation attacks (which by the way, we have not seen in this Russia-Ukraine war.) And you can't counter saturating swarms with these lasers or SHORADs. If I spend X on my drones, you'll have to spend X*100 to defend. So the math is on my side.

The only 'defense' against a saturation attack (of any type, drones/CMs/BMs etc.) is to attack first and neutralize the launch. If a swarm is launched against you, then at some level, you've already failed and will inevitably take damage.
 

pmc

Major
Registered Member
they didn’t use air power effectively, They spread their offensive power over many axis, but the main objective of such a lack of concentration - ability to keep enemy guessing and prevent enemy from concentrating against a main attack - seem not to really have been achieved to a sufficient degree such that enemies’ confusion would allow some of the russian offensives to break through.
do you have any recent example that show more effective application of airpower? sortie rates vs area captured.
.by now 1500 cruise / billistic missiles are fired and without any failure at platform releasing them. whether sub or corvette etc. its quality and reliability of engineering behind it. North and South is understood. Its near the Azov sea and East that have many axis but those are more localized policing conflicts rather than armour battles.
there is no fuel tanks in these choppers. it shows they are putting priority on armament rather than loitering with fuel tanks.

1648690552011.png
 

Helius

Senior Member
Registered Member
Ammo for laser is electricity, which in this case would be fuel for the onboard generator. Your logistic train would already have to handle fuel so it fits right in. Fuel trucks can easily deliver the fuel and pump it into the fuel tank of this vehicle. If it used an autocannon than resupplying it would be more complicated.

Using electricity also has some interesting applications for the future: if in the future charge stations for electric cars become so common that every street lamp post have them you may be able to miniaturise the system even further or stretch out the onboard fuel for longer by plugging in whenever possible.
That's assuming the battery banks and the control room don't already take up the interior of the truck to power that 30kW laser, while a standalone diesel generator charges those batteries up like you would with a fuel truck.

So you'd effectively be swapping one model of system with another of like footprint.

But if we're talking about portable drones for recon, using truck-sized countermeasures seem very unwieldy.
No more unwieldy than a truck/tank sized mobile SAM to be honest.
 
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