Ukrainian War Developments

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Lapin

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Registered Member
The USA likes to insist that war between Russia and Ukraine is all about fighting for freedom and democracy in Ukraine.
But how consistent and steadfast has the USA's supposed commitment to democratic governments been?
I could easily point out many brutal dictators that USA has long supported and still would again.
But let's focus upon the conditional nature of many Americans' approval of democratic elections for themselves.

About all Americans love to profess that the USA is and always has been absolutely devoted to the ideal of democracy everywhere.
(Except for the Palestinians, of course, but I could write a book on that subject.)
I have challenged this smug contention by proposing this thought experiment.
A conversation like this has already taken place between some 'friendly' white Americans and me on at least several occasions.

I: You say that you believe in democracy? What does democracy mean to you? Does it include the universal right to vote?
Ami: Of course, it does.
I: Do you believe that every mentally competent adult (at least without a major criminal record) should have an equal right to vote?
Ami: Yes, I do.
I: Now let's suppose that the USA and China were united as one country with one government, whose leaders would be elected
by the adult citizens in both places. That is, every adult citizen now of the USA or China could vote in the same election for
the same president. What do you think of that hypothetical scenario?
Ami: It sounds weird, so far-fetched. Americans and Chinese voting in the same election? How could that possibly work?
I: China now has a population of more than 1400 million, overwhelmingly Han Chinese. The USA now has a population of
about 333 million, of which slightly less than 75% are white. That means that white Americans would be a rather small
minority of the eligible voters. Do you understand some of what that could imply?
Ami: Hmm, wouldn't that mean that real Americans--even if we all stuck together--could get easily outvoted by the Chinese?
I: That's certainly possible. What do you think of that?
Ami: That doesn't sound fair. I mean, that's just not right. It should not be possible for us to lose any election to the Chinese.
I: But why not? Did you not earlier say that you believe in the universal right to vote?
Within the same country, should not white Americans and Chinese have the equal right to vote?
Ami: Well, maybe in theory, but this is different. It's just not practical.
I: How so? Do you mean that most white Americans never would accept an election as fair or legitimate if the white
American candidate that they supported were to get fewer votes than a Chinese candidate?
Ami: I don't like saying it, but, yeah, I don't think that most Americans could ever accept a system like what you described.
Thank God that we're just talking about a fictional scenario.

Returning to real life, the USA now is undergoing a 'crisis of democracy', as many white Americans are frightened of a future
where non-Hispanic white people will soon become a minority in the USA. Many white Americans have responded by
supporting campaigns to suppress voting by non-white minorities.

Given a choice between fully democratic voting and continuing white-dominated political rule with a slight white majority
(soon to become a white minority), many white Americans evidently would prefer permanent white rule over democracy.
If white Americans were ever confronted with a future where they would be a rather small minority in an overwhelmingly
non-white country, then I expect that many, if not most, of them would rather go to war, perhaps even a nuclear war.

My general point is that the supposed American devotion to democracy is conditional, inconsistent, and often deeply hypocritical.
I don't really believe that the USA's 'fighting for democracy' (assuming that it actually would fight) in Ukraine.
If Russia were to offer seriously to ally with the USA against China, would not the USA find a pretext to sell out Ukraine
and recognize Russia's sovereignty over at least the Crimea and parts of eastern Ukraine?
 

Abominable

Major
Registered Member
Good to see Zelensky addressing reports that Russian POW have mistreated. It's just words of course, and it would need to be followed by action. But better than ignoring it and letting it get out of hand.

Despite what the media is saying, death rates on both sides have been relatively low given how many soldiers are currently in action. Civilian casualties also are likely to be less military deaths.
It doesn't take much for a war to descend into a total bloodbath.

He's still not doing anything about the fact that Ukrainian civilians are being publicly tortured by nazi militia in regions he controls, but until Ukraine is liberated that's his problem.
 

Kich

Junior Member
Registered Member
Allegedly, Russian POWs about to be executed by Ukrainian forces



And yes, all of this also lies on NATO's hands and west's. They have enabling them since 2014.
They dug holes. They really are about to execute them. These are the people the west are supporting. Disgusting.

I've seen a pictures/video of a torture/mutilated female body from Mariupol with a huge Nazi symbol discovered by Russian troops. All these atrocities are never getting covered on Reddit and Western media. Disgusting and shame on all those hypocrites.
 

Lapin

Junior Member
Registered Member
In WW2 Canada put jew refugees with German pow in labor camp in the North... It's just that the victor write the history books. In any war, bad stuff is happening both sides.
In the USA, more than a few flag-waving white Americans have said that I ought to be locked up (in the land of 'free speech') or
'sent back to China' (where?) because I dare to criticize the US government, media, or white Americans in general on some issues.

In this forum, some apparently Chinese fools seem to hate me because they fantasize that I love to regurgitate US propaganda.
Even the American haters seem less idiotic than they are.
 

Abominable

Major
Registered Member
When practically illiterate people ludicrously conclude that I love to regurgitate US government and media propaganda
(in reality, I routinely scathingly criticize the US government and media and often have been banned from US-based websites),
their irredeemable willful ignorance and idiocy makes me glad that they supposedly prefer to avoid me.

It reminds me of the time when German Jewish refugees were locked up because the UK security services suspected that they could
likely be pro-Nazi agents or sympathizers. The Nazis had persecuted them for being Jewish; the UK punished them for being German.

Again, many nationalistic Chinese seem no less ignorant, stupid, and prejudiced than many nationalistic Americans.
They just wave different banners.
In WW2 Canada put jew refugees with German pow in labor camp in the North... It's just that the victor write the history books. In any war, bad stuff is happening both sides.
What do you expect, give them a pass solely because they are Jewish? There were a lot of Jews who were prominent Nazis, particularly in the Luftwaffe. Hence Gorring's famous "I decide who's a Jew in the airforce".

It's the same logic as "Ukraine can't be Nazi because Zelensky is Jewish" or "America can't be racist because the president is black".
 

Darkon112

Junior Member
Registered Member
They dug holes. They really are about to execute them. These are the people the west are supporting. Disgusting.

I've seen a pictures/video of a torture/mutilated female body from Mariupol with a huge Nazi symbol discovered by Russian troops. All these atrocities are never getting covered on Reddit and Western media. Disgusting and shame on all those hypocrites.

Oh, but they are popping up on reddit. And do you know what the response is ? FAKE ! FAKE!! FAKE !!! Or they have it coming because they killed millions of children and raped thousands of women and or those people were spies/saboteurs ! Putler SS !!!! DIE Russsians!!! Reeee!!!!!

That's you're European and Merican standing for freedom, human rights and all the other shit they spout.

Disgusting, utterly disgusting.
 

Lapin

Junior Member
Registered Member
People, please agree to disagree and move on.

We do not want to see this thread locked again, nor do we want to read through page after page of "back and forth" not directly related to the war situation in Ukraine.
It's not about people disagreeing with me *about an issue*.

It's not about people saying that Russia's justified in invading Ukraine when I believe that it's unjustified.
It's not about people saying that they want Russia to win the war or that Russia's clearly winning the war.
Those are issues. I may disagree, but I can let it be.

It's about some people making personal attacks upon me, putting their words into my mouth, or lying about what I write.
That's different. I cannot agree that's acceptable conduct by them.
 

Atomicfrog

Major
Registered Member
What do you expect, give them a pass solely because they are Jewish? There were a lot of Jews who were prominent Nazis, particularly in the Luftwaffe. Hence Gorring's famous "I decide who's a Jew in the airforce".

It's the same logic as "Ukraine can't be Nazi because Zelensky is Jewish" or "America can't be racist because the president is black".
Yep exactly... but we need to hide these facts to look nice... I could be branded sociopath and racist if i say that openly lol !
 

Abominable

Major
Registered Member
Oh, but they are popping up on reddit. And do you know what the response is ? FAKE ! FAKE!! FAKE !!! Or they have it coming because they killed millions of children and raped thousands of women and or those people were spies/saboteurs ! Putler SS !!!! DIE Russsians!!! Reeee!!!!!

That's you're European and Merican standing for freedom, human rights and all the other shit they spout.

Disgusting, utterly disgusting.
Yeah, people seem to be split 50/50 between it's a fake (even though it was uploaded to Ukrainian channels), to people tacitly supporting it by finding reasons to justify it.

Before this war I used to think that even though people in the west ignored what their country did abroad, through decades of peace and social improvement they had become civilised among themselves. Nope, if any Anglo government brings back stoning as a punishment tomorrow there will be plenty of people ready with stones.
 

sheogorath

Major
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It's pretty pathetic to blame NATO for Ukrainian war crimes. Almost as retarded as Americans saying Chinese enabled Russian invasion of Ukraine via passive trade and sanctioning avoidance.
They have been training nazis, they have been arming nazis, they KNOW they are nazis and not a single time has NATO pressured the Ukrainians to drop their nazi bullshit as a prerequisite to get support.

And for the past two months, they have even been running cover for them and their atrocities.

And they have been doing this shit since they helped coup Ukraine in 2014.

So, tell me how NATO isnt at least partially responsible for this?
 
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