Ukrainian War Developments

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james smith esq

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So, Putinini basically punked himself, damn-near bankrupted his country, revealed Russia’s military weakness, got his Oligarch buddies jacked, and made NATO seem relevant!!!

All because he thought he could out Thug and out Gangster the biggest Thugs and Gangsters in history.

And, to make things worse, little bitty Yemen demonstrated the balls and strategic acumen that Putinini didn’t, i. e., to attack the Saudi Oil infrastructure! Had Putinini simply used Russian air-power to do that, he could have raised the price of oil and gas, made the EU even more dependent on Russian energy, and sent a (possibly) more impressive message regarding Russian military capabilities. Oh well?

And I thought Drumpf was stupid!
 

tphuang

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US has rarely been tested. The last time they were was in Vietnam. they lost 3k fixed wing aircraft, 5k helicopters, 50k+ own troops killed, 200k+ puppet troops killed. Vietnam had 1% GDP and 10% population of the US.

If Russia lost 10% of that to Ukraine with 1/4 population and 1/8 GDP, it would be called a disaster.
At some point, people need to stop giving excuses for the piss poor performance that Russians have put up so far. They are still unable to achieve air dominance after a month of conflict. How do you lose so many generals because you are incapable of using encrypted communication?

You might want to listen to shilao podcast on this. They speak to people in pla all the time. They cannot believe Russians have fought this war the way they have. If pla put the same effort on Taiwan scenario, the Taiwanese would not even need American help to fight out an invasion.
 

Pmichael

Junior Member
At some point, people need to stop giving excuses for the piss poor performance that Russians have put up so far. They are still unable to achieve air dominance after a month of conflict. How do you lose so many generals because you are incapable of using encrypted communication?

You might want to listen to shilao podcast on this. They speak to people in pla all the time. They cannot believe Russians have fought this war the way they have. If pla put the same effort on Taiwan scenario, the Taiwanese would not even need American help to fight out an invasion.

imagibe making your judo buddy from the 90s the Chef of the national guard. Everytime Russia was forced to actually fight a war it ended in a disaster
 

Lapin

Junior Member
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US has rarely been tested. The last time they were was in Vietnam. they lost 3k fixed wing aircraft, 5k helicopters, 50k+ own troops killed, 200k+ puppet troops killed. Vietnam had 1% GDP and 10% population of the US.

If Russia lost 10% of that to Ukraine with 1/4 population and 1/8 GDP, it would be called a disaster.
The US media now claims that Russia has failed to achieve air superiority because Ukraine's air force still can make a few sorties.
By that standard, the USA never achieved air superiority over Vietnam. The USA never succeeded in eradicating the VPAF.
The VPAF made many more sorties than Ukraine's air force evidently is doing now.

"VPAF flew their interceptors with superb guidance from ground controllers, who positioned the MiGs in perfect ambush battle stations.
The MIGs made fast and devastating attacks against US formations from several directions (usually the MiG-17s performed head-on
attacks and the MiG-21s attacked from the rear). After shooting down a few American planes and forcing some of the F-105s to drop
their bombs prematurely, the MiGs did not wait for retaliation, but disengaged rapidly. This "
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in the air" proved very
successful. In December 1966 the MiG-21 pilots of the 921st FR downed 14 F-105s without any losses.
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The U.S. Air Force and the U.S. Navy continued to lay down great expectations on the F-4 Phantom, assuming that the massive arms,
the perfect on-board radar, the highest speed and acceleration properties, coupled with the new tactics would provide F-4s an
advantage over the MiGs. But in encounters with lighter VPAF's MiG-21, F-4 began to suffer defeat. From May to December 1966, the
US lost 47 aircraft in air battles, destroying only 12 enemy's fighters. From April 1965 to November 1968, in 268 air battles conducted
over North Vietnam, VPAF claimed to have shot down 244 US or
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(RVNAF) aircraft and they lost 85 MiGs.
...
According to
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and
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, the number of U.S. aircraft lost confirmed by themselves is unconfirmed since the
U.S. figures are also suspect. If a plane was badly damaged, but managed to land, the USAF did not count as a loss, even if it was too
damaged to fly again."
--Wikipedia

US propaganda and practically all popular American history books embellish American airpower's performances in Korea and Vietnam.
In the Korean War, the Americans did not score air victories at a ratio of 10-1 or 11-1, as usually claimed by American writers.
And, contrary to the myth that the USA never has bombed China, the USAF deliberately attacked targets well inside China.
In one American documentary, a proud American pilot condemned Chinese 'aggression' (his term) for daring to fire back
at American aircraft that were attacking an air base well inside China.

During the US war in Indochina, at least several American aircraft were shot down over Hainan.
At least one shot-down American airman was captured and detained in China until the end of war.
(The USA secretly negotiated with China for the release of American airmen shot down over Hainan.)
This chapter of history remains almost completely covered up or censored in the US media.

By the way, the Socialist Republic of Vietnam (North Vietnam) did receive some direct aid in its air defense.
China sent thousands of troops to help man flak or SAM batteries, which allowed Hanoi to send more men to the front.
For a few years, the DPRK (North Korea) sent an elite unit of fighter pilots (flying MiG-17s and MiG-21s) to Vietnam.
 

james smith esq

Senior Member
Registered Member
At some point, people need to stop giving excuses for the piss poor performance that Russians have put up so far. They are still unable to achieve air dominance after a month of conflict. How do you lose so many generals because you are incapable of using encrypted communication?

You might want to listen to shilao podcast on this. They speak to people in pla all the time. They cannot believe Russians have fought this war the way they have. If pla put the same effort on Taiwan scenario, the Taiwanese would not even need American help to fight out an invasion.
As I observed, previously, the mental gymnastics, here, are of Olympian levels!
 

pmc

Major
Registered Member
At some point, people need to stop giving excuses for the piss poor performance that Russians have put up so far. They are still unable to achieve air dominance after a month of conflict. How do you lose so many generals because you are incapable of using encrypted communication?

You might want to listen to shilao podcast on this. They speak to people in pla all the time. They cannot believe Russians have fought this war the way they have. If pla put the same effort on Taiwan scenario, the Taiwanese would not even need American help to fight out an invasion.
i am not sure from where this question about air supermacy comes from. They video taped missiles launched from Black Sea corvette and hit North Western Ukraine. They could have easily launched from Belarus at much much shorter distance if they wanted to give surprize. it seem they are not even bothered by airdefense or Nato radars or reliability of missiles to travel such distance.
 

Phead128

Captain
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
One question about this conflict that I haven't seen adequately addressed to this point is: why now? What were the immediate factors that precipitated this invasion now rather than in 2015, 2019, four months ago, or four months from now?

It's clear that diplomacy is part of the answer to this question, with high-level negotiations occurring between Moscow, Paris, Washington, etc. in the months preceding the invasion. From Putin's perspective, it's plausible that diplomacy may have reached the "end of the road". Yet the failure of diplomacy would not seem to require an immediate military response, or for the next step to be a full-scale "regime change operation" rather than more limited kinetic activity. This would still appear to be a war of choice to be waged on Moscow's timetable, which brings us back to the question of how extraordinarily unprepared Russian forces have appeared to be for the task they have been given.

I have seen some suggestion from pro-Russia sources that Ukraine was planning a major offensive in the Donbas region that would have threatened to "resolve" the situation there. This seems a superficially plausible casus belli, but it really needs to be fleshed out better in terms of sourcing and detail before I can readily accept it.
Let's see..... NATO issued a formal invitation for membership in 2008 to both Ukraine and Georgia. but why NOW in 2022?

Why 2022 for invasion? Apparently US intelligence picked up signs of April 2021 that beginning of mass buildup and preparations of war. Therefore, I suspect the global COVID-19 pandemic played a HUGE role. Timing matters, since West were overwhelmed with COVID surges, it's economies were weak and slowly growing, US with hyperinflation and supply chain issues. So Putin likely used this opportunity to fight Ukraine while West was most distracted (and shore up his own popularity at home after his sloppy COVID response).
 

Abominable

Major
Registered Member
At some point, people need to stop giving excuses for the piss poor performance that Russians have put up so far. They are still unable to achieve air dominance after a month of conflict. How do you lose so many generals because you are incapable of using encrypted communication?

You might want to listen to shilao podcast on this. They speak to people in pla all the time. They cannot believe Russians have fought this war the way they have. If pla put the same effort on Taiwan scenario, the Taiwanese would not even need American help to fight out an invasion.
If you keep repeating a lie enough people believe it to be true. All the dead general stories are coming from the Ukrainians who've offered zero verification. How are they killing them? They aren't calling in airstrikes on Russian positions. The Russians aren't refuting every story that comes out of Ukraine, but the Chechens are when it comes to their own.

The fact that every Chechen commander who was supposedly killed has shown up alive tells you how seriously you should take the Ukrainian claims.
 
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