Ukrainian War Developments

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enroger

Junior Member
Registered Member
"To be honest if I'm in command, I'd rather commit war crime and thermobaric the whole lot ..."

Then I am glad that you are not in command.

In 1984, Sikh nationalists defiantly occupied the Golden Temple in Amritsar, India.
Rather than bombard the Golden Temple into oblivion, Indira Gandhi ordered the Indian Army to storm it.
There ensued a brutal close-quarter battle. The Indian soldiers took heavy losses and evidently committed many war crimes.

"
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attributed high civilian casualties to the Indian Government's attempt at a full frontal
assault on the militants, diverging from the recommendations provided by the
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."

"On 4 June no warning was provided to the pilgrims to evacuate and the pilgrims were deterred of leaving as the Indian army
would arrest anyone who left the temple complex. ... The eyewitness testimony of survivors of the army's assault on the temple
complex were consistent with stating that they were unaware of the start of the attack by the army until it took place without
notice on the morning of 4 June.
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On 6 June the Indian military detained surviving pilgrims on the grounds that they
were affiliated with the militants and subjected them to interrogations, beatings and executions."

"The military action in the temple complex was criticized by Sikhs worldwide, who interpreted it as an assault on the Sikh religion.
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Many Sikh soldiers in the army
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their units,
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several Sikhs resigned from civil administrative office and returned awards
received from the
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. Five months after the operation, on 31 October 1984, Indira Gandhi was
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in an act
of revenge by her two Sikh bodyguards,
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and
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.
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Public outcry over Gandhi's death led to a state
organized pogrom leading to the killing of more than 3,000-17,000 Sikhs across India, in the ensuing
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."
--Wikipedia

In the Second World War, Germany had the deadliest chemical weapon--Tabun, the first 'nerve gas'--in the world.

"Tabun was made on an industrial scale by Germany during World War II, based on a process developed by
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.
In the chemical agent factory in
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, codenamed "Hochwerk", at least 12,000 metric tons of this agent
were manufactured between 1942 and 1945."

But, even in extremis, Hitler never ordered the employment of chemical weapons.
Hitler committed suicide without ever using Tabun against the RKKA.

Don't really the see the relevance of what you wrote... So Indira Gandhi did not achieved the desired results when she ordered the army to go into CQB with the Sikh? Which I would advice against?

By the end of it, The only way for Hitler to use his chemical weapons was to use them inside Germany, so....

If I came off sounding like a militaristic asshole to you, let me explain the whole logic of it:

Don't go to war if you can help it

If you absolutely have to go to war, don't go into urban combat if you can help it

If you absolutely have to go into urban combat, don't send your troops into CQB, thermobaric if you have to

If the politics absolutely requires you to go into CQB, go in with overwhelming numbers and clear expectation of massive casualty

Those are just reality of wars whether you like it or not, what I said was pretty much straight out of "Art of war"; except the thermobaric part of course, but I'm sure if Sun Tzu is still alive he'd love thermobaric bombs
 
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Atomicfrog

Major
Registered Member
That's before other countries send in their missiles too. I think there's about 5 videos of Ukrainians actually using javelins throughout this entire war, I think one video of a stinger actually hitting a helicopter. Javelins still cost $150,000 a pop right?

Yep, keep sending them in Americans. :D
US$175,203 missile only (price for 2021)

It's incredibly costly when a tandem warhead rpg-7 could do the trick very well in urban warfare for less than 1000$ per shot... and is way more transportable than these huge missiles.
 
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Nivacat

Just Hatched
Registered Member
Did you watch Desert Storm? To paraphrase on Iraqi tank battalion/brigade/whatever commander, "after 45 days of bombing I still had 55 of 58 tanks. After 45 minutes of fighting ground forces I had none."
You cannot hide in the desert, everything is exposed in the absence of air superiority in front of 28 armies,, What caused the losses in the Iraqi armored forces is not the ground attack, but rather the exposure of armored forces during the ground battles, which made them an easy hunt for helicopters and A-10 Jet fighters. I directed a lot of documentaries that talk about that battle and I interviewed many Iraqi former generals, they all mentioned almost the same facts
 

Phead128

Captain
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
Did you watch Desert Storm? To paraphrase on Iraqi tank battalion/brigade/whatever commander, "after 45 days of bombing I still had 55 of 58 tanks. After 45 minutes of fighting ground forces I had none."
That's because the air and missile campaign was against military command and control centers, suppression of air defense systems, and radars, not MBTs targets.

Also, US ground forces operates with close air support, which is non-existent with Ukrainian air force.
 

Laviduce

Junior Member
Registered Member
But in some ways the dependency is so deeply embedded in the *infrastructure itself* that replacing the Russian imports is far harder than just deciding to buy stuff elsewhere.
The problem is not Russia but the Neocon/Neolib US that escalated this mess in Ukraine in 2014 into a proxy war , civil war and now open war. Germany is way too entangled with its US overlord to become a sovereign state again as long as this is the case. Germany refused to at least call out the US for its malign behavior in Europe and elsewhere. Deflecting blame onto Russia does not help the situation.
 
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