Ukrainian War Developments

Dolcevita said:

More like lessons for China if and when China decides to punish Taiwan. No more soft punches to punish. Just to go all the way until strategic goal is achieve.

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There is an actual thread for this topic:


Don't post anything related to Taiwan here. That's how I got banned for an entire week.

Jingle Bells said:

This biggest problem for these "Western people unite together" type of rhetoric is that if we look at the money and strategic interest side of things, we will see that this war is pretty much the USA mauling and tearing apart EU economy to suck those global capital back to the US. Euro is plummeting.

Of course, at the media and public perception level, the West seems ever more united on this matter, but when it comes to strategic interest, the West is a horror story: husband (US) pulls the knife from behind his back to murdering the wife (EU) in order to plunder her inherited wealth, right after helping her having a fight with her brother (Russia) to split her father's inheritance.

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As a very pro-European person I actually agree with this assessment.
I don't think it's some secret diabolical U.S. plan but the outcome is nevertheless the same.
Europe, Russia and Ukraine fighting to avoid being the biggest loser of the conflict.
China reap some benefits regardless and the U.S. reap the most as long as things don't get too much out of hand.

Bltizo said:

I don't think anyone in the Chinese government would be opposed to strengthen and deepen bonds between Russia and China.
But doing so by providing military support and arms to Russia at this moment in time, is not the only option to deepen said bonds in the short, medium or long term, and the high potential costs of providing said arms and military support may not be worth the benefits.


China has finite geopolitical and geoeconomic capacity to expend -- is providing military support and arms to Russia right now , really the best use of it?


All this isn't to say that China should not provide geopolitical and geoeconomic and technological support to Russia in a general manner. However, providing military arms or explicit military support, is something else entirely.

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The emphasis is on the specific point in time in question, ie, now. Both Russia and China said there wasn't any such request of that nature.
But, should such request does happen, it's worth pulling the pin out, as Russia wouldn't ask for something they don't need to achieve their goal, which perfectly lines up with that of China's. Russian security is China's first line of defense as it turns out, given the not so subtle telegraphing of Americans' hostile strategic intent and locking up significant parts of their military and economic capabilities to specific hostile focus on China. Providing weapons in case of Russian request and need is basically China's defensive offensive preemptive offshore strike of a sort, or a proxy war, to keep the active conflicts away from her own border, exact mirror of what is normal standard US practice. Economic reasons are always a distant secondary when it comes to strategic survival of a state. What exactly is the point of being rich and technologically advanced society when you are already dead and buried and long ceased to exist?
I have seen some posters here who would spout appeasenik FUD nonsense like economic factors are absolute priority over a nation's survival, as an unbreakable axiom of truth, much like what a veritable American think tank with an hegemonic axe to grind would proselytize. Not trying to jingle anybody's bells, but that line of thinking would have a sell by date of 1989. This is 2022 now. Grow up, or change your appeasenik FUD line of tactics.

What is now trending, and it is being asserted as fact as claimed by Mariupol City officials and repeated by Western Media, is that Mariupol residents are being forcibly relocated to Russia for internment at camps and unknown locations. This comes as it is becoming obvious that Mariupol has effectively fallen from Ukrainian control.

SilentObserver said:

The fall of Mariupol to Russian forces would be a major milestone in the conflict. It will free up forces for a northern offensive and the bulk of Ukranian forces in the East will face encirclement.

Russian forces would be able to consolidate their logistics network in Eastern Ukraine and push linearly in the East until they reach Kyiv. They will be in a much better logistical position once railways can be utilized and road networks under their control can be connected.
View attachment 85581

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Now, this map paints a pretty picture! Let’s see if this one comes to fruition.

ArmchairAnalyst said:

As a very Pro-European-minded person I actually agree with this assessment.
I don't think it's some secret diabolical U.S. plan but the outcome is nevertheless the same.
Europe, Russia and Ukraine fighting to avoid being the biggest loser of the conflict.
China reap some benefits regardless and the U.S. reap the most as long as things don't get too much out of hand.

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Exactly!

In fact, both Macron and the new German leadership had been trying to say that Russia did not intend to invade Ukraine, right before Russian military moved in. In fact, the US were the earliest country to pull out their expats and diplomats from Ukraine. EU did NOT want a war in Ukraine. And as we are seeing right now, EU is hurt the MOST economically now.

I also don't want to join that "conspiracy bandwagon", but even if people here are blaming NATO expansion (which I actually agree to be one of the main reasons that tipped Russia off), I don't think continental Europe wants to destroy their relations with Russia. France and Germany would have been braindead if they actually want to push for hard economic decoupling with Russia.

ArmchairAnalyst said:

As a very pro-European person I actually agree with this assessment.
I don't think it's some secret diabolical U.S. plan but the outcome is nevertheless the same.
Europe, Russia and Ukraine fighting to avoid being the biggest loser of the conflict.
China reap some benefits regardless and the U.S. reap the most as long as things don't get too much out of hand.

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Remember how Merkel used to oppose to NATO expansion but US got their way in the end? There was countless Russian warning about this exact scenario yet somehow US didn't notice? Call me a conspiracy theorist but I say this is exactly what the US planned decades ago, finish Russia off while weaken EU's economy whenever the US economy need it the most, which is now.

they developed this unguided rocket that more effective.
this will be first modern war where more choppers are involved than fighters in same theatre.

.https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/defense/2018-07-10/new-air-ground-rocket-russian-attack-aircraft
In recent interviews, officials from Techmash have said that the S-8OFP’s lethality is five to six times greater and that depending on fusing the rocket can either explode before the target, when hitting it, and after having penetrated it. Techmash recently unveiled digital fuses that can receive and process information from outer sources, including the launching platform. This means that the new rocket can be employed more efficiently against a wider spectrum of targets, including hardened and armored. It is believed that this kind of operation is being combat proven in Syria using Kamov Ka-52 helicopters equipped with advanced targeting systems.

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enroger said:

Remember how Merkel used to oppose to NATO expansion but US got their way in the end? There was countless Russian warning about this exact scenario yet somehow US didn't notice? Call me a conspiracy theorist but I say this is exactly what the US planned decades ago, finish Russia off while weaken EU's economy whenever the US economy need it the most, which is now.

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That would also make Putin an american complicit, willing or not

ArmchairAnalyst said:

As a very pro-European person I actually agree with this assessment.
I don't think it's some secret diabolical U.S. plan but the outcome is nevertheless the same.
Europe, Russia and Ukraine fighting to avoid being the biggest loser of the conflict.
China reap some benefits regardless and the U.S. reap the most as long as things don't get too much out of hand.

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Kindly provide your insight why is EU unable to avoid this unfortunate event knowing that itself is going to be a loser.

Russia built a new gas line for supply. China offer sweet trade agreement. Both were rejected by EU. With both energy & market EU have a winner. Instead it prefer the current choice which is not rational.