Ukrainian War Developments

Status
Not open for further replies.

lube

Junior Member
Registered Member
China has benefited tremendously from its relationship with Europe. China does not do things for free. If it "offered olive branches", it's because China gained from those efforts. And China continued to gain through those efforts for much of the Trump presidency. of course, COVID torpedoed all of that.

Now with Russia becoming the new villain, China does not need to sacrifice much. It just needs to not sell weapons to Russia.

So far, the only responses I got are basically all pride related.


Go listen to Shilao's podcast on J-10 export. China did not export J-7s to North Korea in the 2000s due to not wanting to hurt its relationship with South Korea. Do you really think China does not care about its relationship with other countries when it sells weapons?

China does not need to abandon Russia. It just needs to not sell Russia weapon during this conflict that will hopefully end soon.
You understand after this, Europeans and the Eurocrats will be on a victory high from a crippled Russia, regardless if Russia 'wins' or not.
They'll be threatening to sanction countries for working with Russian companies in a whole range of industries.

No arms deals even if the war ends, no more technology collaboration, no more aviation collaboration.
No use of Russian technology allowed in Chinese commercial aircraft.
Chinese oil majors will be sanctioned for investing in Russia gas projects.
Selling fully domestic semiconductors to Russia? Sanctioned.
Selling Chinese software in Russia? Sanctioned.

Why would the Europeans allow China to sell drones and military equipment to Russia without paying the price?

This is going to be the NATO demand towards China.
 

RottenPanzer

Junior Member
Registered Member
I'm pretty sceptical regarding ASB news tbh
I saw them tweeted about a "supposed" NATO equipment that was used by Azov which apparently only a MacBook with NATO stickers in it
And also their rather "bold claim" of Ukrainians would simply open their arms in the case of Russian invasion of Ukraine which proven to be false

Overall, i think ASB News give Russian side of OSINT pretty bad reputation
 

Jingle Bells

Junior Member
Registered Member
You understand after this, Europeans and the Eurocrats will be on a victory high from a crippled Russia, regardless if Russia 'wins' or not.
They'll be threatening to sanction countries for working with Russian companies in a whole range of industries.

No arms deals even if the war ends, no more technology collaboration, no more aviation collaboration.
No use of Russian technology allowed in Chinese commercial aircraft.
Chinese oil majors will be sanctioned for investing in Russia gas projects.
Selling fully domestic semiconductors to Russia? Sanctioned.
Selling Chinese software in Russia? Sanctioned.

Why would the Europeans allow China to sell drones and military equipment to Russia without paying the price?

This is going to be the NATO demand towards China.
Are you trying to intimidate us? hahaha, You're fear mongering! How cute!
Oh, gee, I am so scared! Literally shitting my pants scared!
 

lube

Junior Member
Registered Member
Are you trying to intimidate us? hahaha, You're fear mongering! How cute!
No, I'm giving the Eurocrat perspective.
I'm not supporting them at all.

I fear this is what will come out of this whole mess.
Because relations are inherently hostile, they'll never let China freely benefit from an isolated Russia.

People saying just don't send weapons to Russia while the war is ongoing missed the point completely.
 

enroger

Junior Member
Registered Member
Translated text regarding the video meeting between XJP and Biden:-

Biden said that 50 years ago, the United States and China made important choices and issued the "Shanghai Communiqué." Today, 50 years later, U.S.-China relations are once again at a critical juncture, and how U.S.-China relations develop will shape the world pattern in the 21st century. I would like to reiterate that the United States does not seek to fight a "new Cold War" with China, does not seek to change the Chinese system, does not seek to oppose China through strengthening alliances, does not support "Taiwan independence," and has no intention of clashing with China. The US side is willing to have frank dialogue with The Chinese side, strengthen cooperation, adhere to the one-China policy, effectively control competition and differences, and promote the stable development of US-China relations. I am willing to maintain close communication with President Xi Jinping and orient the rudder for U.S.-China relations.

Xi Jinping pointed out that since our first "cloud meeting" in November last year, the international situation has undergone new major changes. The theme of the times of peace and development faces severe challenges, and the world is neither peaceful nor peaceful. As permanent members of the UN Security Council and the world's top two economies, we must not only lead China-US relations forward on the right track, but also shoulder our due international responsibilities and make efforts for world peace and tranquility.

Xi Jinping stressed that mr. President and I both agreed that China and the United States should respect each other, coexist peacefully and avoid confrontation, and agreed that the two sides should strengthen communication and dialogue at all levels and in all fields. Mr. President just reiterated that the US side does not seek to fight a "new Cold War," does not seek to change the Chinese system, does not seek to oppose China through strengthening alliances, does not support "Taiwan independence," and has no intention of clashing with China. I attach great importance to your remarks.

Xi Jinping pointed out that at present, Sino-US relations have not yet come out of the predicament created by the previous US administration, but have encountered more and more challenges. In particular, some people in the United States have sent the wrong signal to the "Taiwan independence" forces, which is very dangerous. If the Taiwan issue is not handled well, it will have a subversive impact on bilateral relations. It is hoped that the US side will pay enough attention to it. The direct reason for the current situation in Sino-US relations is that some people in the United States have not implemented the important consensus reached by the two of us, nor have they implemented mr. President's positive remarks. The US side misread and misjudged China's strategic intentions.

Xi Jinping stressed that China and the United States have had differences in the past and are now, and there will be differences in the future. The key is to manage differences. A stable and developing Sino-US relationship is beneficial to both sides.

The two sides exchanged views on the current situation in Ukraine.

Biden introduced the position of the US side and expressed his willingness to communicate with the Chinese side to prevent the escalation of the situation.

Xi Jinping pointed out that the development of the situation in Ukraine to this point is something that China does not want to see. China has always advocated peace and opposed war, which is a Chinese historical and cultural tradition. We have always proceeded from the merits of the matter itself, made judgments independently and autonomously, advocated upholding international law and universally recognized basic norms governing international relations, adhered to the UN Charter, and advocated the concept of common, comprehensive, cooperative and sustainable security. These principles are China's foothold in handling the Ukraine crisis. China has put forward a six-point initiative on the humanitarian situation in Ukraine and is willing to provide further humanitarian assistance to Ukraine and other affected countries. All parties should jointly support the Russian-Ukrainian dialogue and negotiations, and talk about results and peace. The United States and NATO should also engage in dialogue with Russia to unravel the crux of the Crisis in Ukraine and resolve the security concerns of both Russia and Ukraine.

Xi Jinping stressed that at present, countries around the world have been very difficult, not only to cope with the C0vid-19 epidemic, but also to protect the economy and people's livelihood. As the leaders of major countries, we must consider properly resolving global hotspot issues, and we must also consider global stability and the production and life of billions of people. In the implementation of all-round and indiscriminate sanctions, it is the people who are still suffering. If it is further deteriorated, it will also trigger a serious crisis in the global economy and trade, finance, energy, food, industrial chain supply chain, etc., making the already difficult world economy worse and causing irreparable losses. The more complex the situation, the more calm and rational it is needed. In all circumstances, political courage must be exercised to create space for peace and leave room for a political solution. There are two old Chinese sayings, one is "a slap does not sound" and the other is "to untie the bell, you must tie the bell.". The key is for the parties to demonstrate political will, to focus on the present, to look to the future and to find appropriate solutions, for which conditions can and should be created by others. It is imperative to continue dialogue and negotiation to avoid civilian casualties, prevent humanitarian crises and an early ceasefire and end the war. The long-term approach lies in the fact that major powers respect each other, abandon the Cold War mentality, refrain from camp confrontation, and gradually build a balanced, effective and sustainable global and regional security architecture. China has been doing its best for peace and will continue to play a constructive role.

The two heads of state believe that the video call was constructive and instructed the working teams of the two countries to follow up in a timely manner, take practical actions, strive to return Sino-US relations to the track of stable development, and make their own efforts to properly resolve the Ukrainian crisis.

Xi is keeping it vague but he's basically saying NATO and Ukraine should make compromise accommodating Russian security concern. But damn everyone here can see that ship has sailed.... people wondering what's the end and sadly I don't see any other way than Ukraine getting utterly dismantled
 

Jingle Bells

Junior Member
Registered Member
No, I'm giving the Eurocrat perspective.
I'm not supporting them at all.

I fear this is what will come out of this whole mess.
Because relations are inherently hostile, they'll never let China freely benefit from an isolated Russia.

People saying just don't send weapons to Russia while the war is ongoing missed the point completely.
You “fear”.

I don't. And I'm pretty sure those who like my replies also do NOT fear.

Of course, feel free to spread more fear and try to intimidate Chinese people. Heck, they might be spineless enough to capitulate to your masters without even a fight.

Heck, we Chinese might be so scared shitless right now, that if you just intimidate us a little more, we will take up arms against Russia, do a suicidal mutual destruction of Russia, to satisfy the fantasy wet dream of your master: "two enemies of the west destroy each other, safeguarding White American supremacy without even having to shed one drop of white Anglo-Saxon blood"! Just to beg for the divine forgiveness to have existed on this holy white Anglo-saxon world as yellow colored folks and Russian (Mongol-core "white" people).

If that ever happens, you and your master ought to praise the Lord your God for this absolute miracle for all eternity.

Even the China back in 1950 will NOT be intimidated to capitulate, and they put up a bitter fight in Korea. Right now, you expect us to shit our pants and capitulate just because potentially, some "mighty European countries" will be "hostile" and "never let China freely benefit.....blah, blah, blah".

Wow, you are not only trying to intimidate us, you are trying to mock us. You think we are not only spineless, but spineless fools!



This is how I feel about your "fears". I found it to be an absolutely meaningless pile of bullshit, and a total waste of time.
 
Last edited:

windsclouds2030

Senior Member
Registered Member
Those of us who are not wholly slaves of the western mainstream media, with its facile and self-serving depictions of this conflict as with all else, are surely aware that the present catastrophe is the product of many years of developments. While there are are a number of possible narratives and a number of possible points from which to begin them, we can be sure that future historians will not begin their accounts of these events with Russia's annexation of Crimea in 2014.

It is in that light that I wish to bring the figure of George Kennan to the attention of readers here. Kennan was perhaps the foremost American expert on Russia that nation has ever produced. He wrote the 'Long Telegram' that furnished the intellectual architecture for the Cold War and its foundational principle of containment. I will leave it to
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
to offer a more comprehensive biography, the point is that his credentials as both an expert on Russian affairs and a credible thinker on matters of national security are unimpeachable. In the wake of the Cold War, then aged in his 90s, Kennan fervently opposed the expansion of NATO. His words are chillingly prescient:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!



Here are some excerpts from his 1997 letters (I am copying here from 'The Kennan Diaries'):



Kennan was always forthright about his lack of knowledge or interest in China, nonetheless his 1996 comments here are interesting, revealing a worldview essentially alien to the modern world that he had been forced to inhabit:



George Kennan passed away in 2005, aged 101.
Thanks for the good piece bringing us to the attention on George Kennan, heard the name many times yet have not paid much attention to this US diplomat, Russian expert. The heat of the Russia's Special Operation in Ukraine may bring renew interest upon this forgotten expert.

Foreign Affairs; Now a Word From X - alternate link at the Wayback Machine:
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


George Kennan's 'Long Telegram' (1946, pdf)
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
 

Jingle Bells

Junior Member
Registered Member
No, I'm giving the Eurocrat perspective.
I'm not supporting them at all.

I fear this is what will come out of this whole mess.
Because relations are inherently hostile, they'll never let China freely benefit from an isolated Russia.

People saying just don't send weapons to Russia while the war is ongoing missed the point completely.
They will NOT be in a position of power to demand anything from China after this war!

Just look at Euro's exchange rate. All of Europe is hurt the most from these sanctions. And as the US start their series of rates hike, global capital will leave Europe to go to either the US or to China.

Do you really think that in that pathetic state after this war, EU can afford to bark at China?! China was already a bigger beast than EU in many aspects. They are essentially a huge exporter, and their biggest market is in China. They are welcomed to pick a fight with China. China will just need to squeeze that market share in the Chinese market. Simple as that.
 

sinophilia

Junior Member
Registered Member
Russia has no stealth bomber nor bases for them sitting along American borders

With 2,800 mile missile range the new ALCM only needs the bombers to travel 130 miles off the coast of Siberia to launch at half the Continental United States.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top