Ukrainian War Developments

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Abominable

Major
Registered Member
The article provides no compelling reason to cut Putin off except "Don't have US sanctions imposed on China" which I somewhat understand BUT the author seems to forget how China routinely trades with sanctioned states like Iran and North Korea, and avoid retailiatory US sanctions. There are significant loopholes to Western sanctions on Russia that China can exploit to prevent total economic collapse.

The article naively suggest China's reputation is harmed by neutrality. Yes, maybe amongst Western imperialist nations, but neutrality is the correct position to take, since both sides are engaged in different degrees of imperialism if we want to objective, fair, and impartial. Both sides are imperialistic, so China should remain neutral, but lean towards Russia since it's the weaker imperialist aligned with China's interests.

It's also supremely naive to thing US will drop it's anti-China mentality if it joins in anti-Russian crusade. Yes, Russia's actions is imperialistic, but that's not China's problem to fix, the mess was created by Western countries. China isn't obligated to toe Western line to fix the mess West created and help kill it's strategic partner out of some faux outrage on "muh internation law!!" which US routinely ignores.
His argument boils down to:

Russia is losing in Ukraine. (LOL)
The west will be angry with Russia for a long time.
China should stab Russia in the back so the west will like China again.

Basically a American neocon analysis of the sitution and the ideal outcome.

Whoever wrote that not only failed to read the sentiments of senior officials but also regular Chinese people. The "author" of that piece should have an investigation by the anti-corruption unit. It wouldn't surprise me if he has a transactions from Washington that need explaining.

Anyone can have an opinion in China, but you can't use your name to spout foreign (or corporate) interests for financial gain. Americans "think tanks" out literally thousands of documents like this, all representing various foreign and domestic lobbyists. This sort of thing hasn't existed in China and I hope it isn't that start of a new trend.
 

Stealthflanker

Senior Member
Registered Member
So, with MiG's deal basically dead..maybe. Now there is attempt to get "advanced air defense system" to Ukraine. You guys think Slovakia and Bulgaria or Greece would be willing to transfer their S-300 system ?
 

Bill Blazo

Junior Member
Registered Member
Does anyone know of any good independent or semi-independent estimates of Russian and Ukrainian losses so far in the war? I know there's a lot of stuff out there, but it seems rather unreliable. The Ukrainian MOD figures grossly inflate Russian losses and the Russian MOD figures probably inflate Ukrainian losses as well. I know there are sources like Oryx and Ukraine Weapons Tracker counting equipment losses captured on photos and videos. For example, Oryx is currently saying that Russia has lost 205 tanks and Ukraine has lost 59. But a problem I have with these sources is that they have a huge selection bias: because these losses are happening on Ukrainian territory, Ukrainian citizens and soldiers are much more likely to document Russian military losses through photos and videos rather than the losses of the Ukrainian military. By posting pictures and videos of destroyed Russian stuff online, they can also claim to have momentum on their side, thus providing evidence that Western aid is working and justifying more help at the same time. The basic point I'm making is that a lot of these sources are vastly undercounting Ukrainian losses in particular. For another example of my point, Oryx currently says that the Ukrainians have only lost 9 aircraft. That seems rather ridiculous, but it would make perfect sense if the Ukrainian people aren't snapping up photos of their crashed jet fighters and splashing them online. Assuming I'm right then, what are some more reliable estimates of actual Ukrainian losses? Has anyone come across any, or would anyone here like to venture their own educated guess?
 

Phead128

Captain
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
His argument boils down to:

Russia is losing in Ukraine. (LOL)
The west will be angry with Russia for a long time.
China should stab Russia in the back so the west will like China again.

Basically a American neocon analysis of the sitution and the ideal outcome.

Whoever wrote that not only failed to read the sentiments of senior officials but also regular Chinese people. The "author" of that piece should have an investigation by the anti-corruption unit. It wouldn't surprise me if he has a transactions from Washington that need explaining.

Anyone can have an opinion in China, but you can't use your name to spout foreign (or corporate) interests for financial gain. Americans "think tanks" out literally thousands of documents like this, all representing various foreign and domestic lobbyists. This sort of thing hasn't existed in China and I hope it isn't that start of a new trend.
Yes, the logic of American neocon.

The author literally admits the West is trying to contain China, but then flip-flops to: "China should kowtow to Western opinion, get Western senpai's attention, kill Russia, maybe they like me again." Holy shit. China is already giving West some "face" by talking about sovereignty/respect territory, but American neocon wants China to bend over backwards and literally do West's bidding to kill Russia.

If his ultimately objective is to avoid US sanctions, then understandable. He should also know China routinely trades with Iran/North Korea despite US sanctions, so get his US-ass kissing head out of his own ass.
 

Anlsvrthng

Captain
Registered Member
This thingy about the "China help" igetting too much spin.

The USA put pressure onto China to make comitments and give advertisin airtime to the USA interest, but generally China more willing to take the bad end of the santions than to backstab Russia.

Anyway, the FX reserves worth less at least as much as Guam, so there should be a trade during the sanctions. USA get the FX, China Guam : )

Probably Russia thinking about the same, I am sure there are interesting real estates in the owenership of each santioning country that could make good plot for a Russian military base.
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
There is a very strong possibility that if China were to lend large scale military assistance to Russia, the United States will retaliate by formally recognizing the independence of Taiwan shortly after the conflict in Ukraine reach some kind of hiatus. In such a case or China will be in the very difficult position of choosing to fight or not. Giving up any major military asset such as fourth generation fighters to russia, Especially when it is not altogether clear such support could have any decisive affect on the outcome, will not be seen as a particularly slick move
US has been selling and equipping Taiwan for decades and the effort is accelerating with every year So what is good for the geese is good for the gander China should reciprocate this US meddling by providing and equipping Russia I don't see anything wrong with it. If US push Taiwan for independence there will be war across Taiwan straits come what may
 

LawLeadsToPeace

Senior Member
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
Registered Member
Does anyone know of any good independent or semi-independent estimates of Russian and Ukrainian losses so far in the war? I know there's a lot of stuff out there, but it seems rather unreliable. The Ukrainian MOD figures grossly inflate Russian losses and the Russian MOD figures probably inflate Ukrainian losses as well. I know there are sources like Oryx and Ukraine Weapons Tracker counting equipment losses captured on photos and videos. For example, Oryx is currently saying that Russia has lost 205 tanks and Ukraine has lost 59. But a problem I have with these sources is that they have a huge selection bias: because these losses are happening on Ukrainian territory, Ukrainian citizens and soldiers are much more likely to document Russian military losses through photos and videos rather than the losses of the Ukrainian military. By posting pictures and videos of destroyed Russian stuff online, they can also claim to have momentum on their side, thus providing evidence that Western aid is working and justifying more help at the same time. The basic point I'm making is that a lot of these sources are vastly undercounting Ukrainian losses in particular. For another example of my point, Oryx currently says that the Ukrainians have only lost 9 aircraft. That seems rather ridiculous, but it would make perfect sense if the Ukrainian people aren't snapping up photos of their crashed jet fighters and splashing them online. Assuming I'm right then, what are some more reliable estimates of actual Ukrainian losses? Has anyone come across any, or would anyone here like to venture their own educated guess?
To be honest, we don’t. There have been wild claims being flung around by both sides, and many instances of fake news are being pushed as real (most likely as part of an information warfare campaign). For the movement and status of both sides, I personally would just look at the maps being published by all parties and use verified footage as proof of the maps’ accuracy. For losses, just treat each claim with a ton of salt.
 

windsclouds2030

Senior Member
Registered Member
From Republic TV, an English news channel in India

Arnab Goswami Debate LIVE | Putin Brings Syrian Fighters To Combat US-equipped Ukraine

Russia Alleges 'Bioweapons' Charge Against US Amidst The Ukraine War | The Debate With Arnab​


By Republic World (5.13M subscribers) - 12 MARCH 2022


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