I looked again. They also mention Reuters as source for their map. But it remains odd.My Dutch newspaper has succeeded in combining a news article in which they say Debaltsevo is surrounded with a small scale map showing a corridor to the place that has nearly constant width and for which they claim authorship.
The article was written by their own correspondent from Gorlivka, much nearer to Debaltsevo than Amsterdam. That is probably the explanation.
Ukraine Revolt/Civil War News, Reports, Data, etc.
- Thread starter Jura The idiot
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In my view, Sampan, that scenario would appear to be a defeat for both sides, really.
The EU, if acknowledging that break-up, and after repeatedly asserting that Russia is an aggressor against peace in Europe, would concede that military intervention (i.e. war) is again an acceptable way of changing borders in Europe. Something the eastern european states especially would certainly fiercely oppose.
To calm those nations, a much heavier NATO presence on their territory might be necessary. Something that goes in a circle of not defusing at all the tensions between Russia and much of Europe.
On the other side, the ukrainian parts you see as going into the EU via their "parent states" would by the same token also become part of NATO right away, as all those "parent-states" are already NATO members. An eventual "core-Ukraine" might find it easier to join eventually. That all, NATO borders moving closer to Russia, seems to be the prime thing Putin is strenuously trying to avoid with his current actions.
With all this on my mind, I currently do not see the reasoning behind your proposal / prediction.
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A pro-NAF reporter doing a news coverage from the Debalsevo about how there's no ceasfire has (inadvertantly and again) filmed russian tanks there.
Russia would love a formal open investigation on the MH17. But this would be the last thing that Ukraine would want.
And those 4 countries would have to explain why the need to have a secret no-tell agreement and excluding the Malaysian govt from the investigation itself.
And the Malaysian govt is very unhappy at this arrangement and has alluded to a superpower pressuring them not to push it.
And those 4 countries would have to explain why the need to have a secret no-tell agreement and excluding the Malaysian govt from the investigation itself.
And the Malaysian govt is very unhappy at this arrangement and has alluded to a superpower pressuring them not to push it.
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That there is no ceasefire in the cauldron is something no one is denying at all.
And yes, we all know about Ukraine and NATO's screams of Russian tanks, especially photos by an ambassador on his Twitter account of a "Russian column in Ukraine" that was actually of a Russian column on exercise within Russian territory itself and way back in 2008.
I think that is the same photo you are referring to.
Anybody read that? It's online so you can look for it yourself but I won't put the link here in case someone complain about me.
And yes, we all know about Ukraine and NATO's screams of Russian tanks, especially photos by an ambassador on his Twitter account of a "Russian column in Ukraine" that was actually of a Russian column on exercise within Russian territory itself and way back in 2008.
I think that is the same photo you are referring to.
Anybody read that? It's online so you can look for it yourself but I won't put the link here in case someone complain about me.
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I think what I am exploring is that there is more than a single "western" position on this problem and that the objectives of Brussels and Washington are not automatically the same.
Further, despite what everybody professes as there objective; an unified Ukraine, it seems increasingly impossible for this to be achieved by any degree of consent.
The Crimea is gone and it is not coming back
The Donbass has gone and will not be forced back.
In short, you can only ask "how to put Humpty back together again" for so long. Once it is clear that the question is pointless, the only remaining relevant question is "How do you like your eggs?"
I am not understanding what your meaning is here.
"The discussion should have taken place after it had been cleaned out."
What do you mean, "cleaned out?"
Discussions took place and an agreement was reached, but according to the link you gave us, although the Ukrainians indicate they were ready to withdraw their heavy weapons, after the agreement was signed they have been attacked over and over again and now are unwilling to withdraw their heavy weapons until the attacks cease and a true cease-fire is in place.
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