Miragedriver
Brigadier
2015/01/20 Alexander Zakharchenko press conference and three young Ukrainian soldiers captive with attacking Donetsk airport
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Ukraine Revolt/Civil War News, Reports, Data, etc.
- Thread starter Jura The idiot
- Start date
I see a lot of hyperbole and reports regarding this over the last several hours.
Particularly citing NATO telling Russia to pull its troops back.
However, no specific amounts are coming out of NATO as yet, and no verifiable proof from NATO or the UK, other than people on the ground in Ukraine claiming it.
I know this...the US and the West have plenty of satellites that could confirm a 10,000 troop, 900 tank force in Ukraine if it had moved over en masse, or was operating as a large unit. If that were to happen, I would expect NATO, the US, and the UK would be showing said sat images along with whatever their response might be (like putting similar numbers of troops in western Ukraine).
Until something like that happens (and I pray it does not happen), I will wait before I make a specific judgment about how large, if any, a force Russia has operating in the Ukraine.
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if said invasion were true would it not have been presaged by an initial deployment of these units to the border several days prior? 9000 troops don't just magically appear because if they do we (nato) are in BIG trouble.
solarz
Brigadier
You never know, maybe the Russians discovered Cloaking technology and are using it in Ukraine!
Mr T
Senior Member
So the airport has definitely fallen to the rebels. Looks like the Ukrainian forces didn't have enough personnel left to hold on to the areas they recaptured.
I'm not going to discuss the issue of how the last president left office as I interpret this thread as being about contemporary matters, but since he left office there have been two national elections. Also Ukraine can't "rest the clock" politically because Yanukovych will never come back. So unless you're saying Ukraine will now, forever, never ever have a legitimate government because you don't like the way Yanukovych left office, you need to move on and just accept there have been two elections.
I agree with Jeff. it's a bit early to be discussing those sorts of figures.
I'm not going to discuss the issue of how the last president left office as I interpret this thread as being about contemporary matters, but since he left office there have been two national elections. Also Ukraine can't "rest the clock" politically because Yanukovych will never come back. So unless you're saying Ukraine will now, forever, never ever have a legitimate government because you don't like the way Yanukovych left office, you need to move on and just accept there have been two elections.
I agree with Jeff. it's a bit early to be discussing those sorts of figures.
with donetsk airport battles coming to an end, attentions now should be shifting towards gorlovka, where a successful strike could potentially isolate ukrainian forces in debaltsev for a ilovaisk 2.0. a wildcard here would actually be kremlin, since they already concluded a ceasefire with kiev recently i wonder if there is an impetus to push for such offensive
I think its now a bit clearer as to what has happened
Last week it seems that the NAF finally cleared the Airport and took full control and started to probe the surrounding areas.
When news arrived in Kiev it seems to have sparked panic as the Airport had become a symbol of state resistance to the NAF
We know that the Pro Kiev forces mounted a counter attack/offensive to try and retake the Airport and that a lot of Artillery opened up across many areas of the entire Donbass front. The unresolved rumour is that Kiev ordered a full offensive on all fronts, but due either to lack of readiness, lack of command cohesion, lack of morale and discipline or even a toxic combination of the above, the offensive was either locally half hearted or failed to materialise at all.
We do know that the counter attack at the Airport was unsuccessful and that the Brigade commander of the 93rd was captured; largely on account of incorrect or plain misleading intelligence.
As to whether the NAF continues or returns to Ceasefire mode is a mote point. My gut instinct says back to Ceasefire as Moscow seems intent on playing a diplomatic game rather than a military one. Comments from Russia suggests that this week "a point has been made" prior to continued negotiations, which today in Berlin, have returned to calls for the Minsk protocols.
I do wonder if the judgement of Moscow is that the loss of the Airport, is so damaging to Kiev that it may cause a total unravelling of command and government. It would certainly explain the need to blame an Army of 10,000 Russian soldiers and 500 tanks.
Ukraine concedes loss of Airport.
Last week it seems that the NAF finally cleared the Airport and took full control and started to probe the surrounding areas.
When news arrived in Kiev it seems to have sparked panic as the Airport had become a symbol of state resistance to the NAF
We know that the Pro Kiev forces mounted a counter attack/offensive to try and retake the Airport and that a lot of Artillery opened up across many areas of the entire Donbass front. The unresolved rumour is that Kiev ordered a full offensive on all fronts, but due either to lack of readiness, lack of command cohesion, lack of morale and discipline or even a toxic combination of the above, the offensive was either locally half hearted or failed to materialise at all.
We do know that the counter attack at the Airport was unsuccessful and that the Brigade commander of the 93rd was captured; largely on account of incorrect or plain misleading intelligence.
As to whether the NAF continues or returns to Ceasefire mode is a mote point. My gut instinct says back to Ceasefire as Moscow seems intent on playing a diplomatic game rather than a military one. Comments from Russia suggests that this week "a point has been made" prior to continued negotiations, which today in Berlin, have returned to calls for the Minsk protocols.
I do wonder if the judgement of Moscow is that the loss of the Airport, is so damaging to Kiev that it may cause a total unravelling of command and government. It would certainly explain the need to blame an Army of 10,000 Russian soldiers and 500 tanks.
Ukraine concedes loss of Airport.
Miragedriver
Brigadier
Shooting at separatist command post
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Miragedriver
Brigadier
UA forces shelled Donetsk - at least 13 civilians killed at bus stop
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