Ukraine Revolt/Civil War News, Reports, Data, etc.

People who volonteer to fight for the Donbass are likely to compare themselves with those who went to fight against Franco in the Spanish civil war.
...

oh so you're giving me Brigadas Internacionales but what's ironic
  1. about half a year after Madrid had fallen, Communists became allies of Mr. Hitla, talking about him as a victim of Western plot which started the war (and were working with him on taking apart the Eastern Europe)
  2. members of those units were persecuted by their Communistic buddies around 1950
but you may still tell me:

why are you talking Schutzstaffel in
Ukraine Revolt/Civil War News, Reports, Data, etc.
 

delft

Brigadier
oh so you're giving me Brigadas Internacionales but what's ironic
  1. about half a year after Madrid had fallen, Communists became allies of Mr. Hitla, talking about him as a victim of Western plot which started the war (and were working with him on taking apart the Eastern Europe)
  2. members of those units were persecuted by their Communistic buddies around 1950
but you may still tell me:
I refer to the fact that the Dutch governments of the 1950's found people who served in the Waffen-SS less objectionable that those who went to fight fascism in Spain.
OT
That reminds me of the fact that the man who at that time was a minister of war and the navy ( the last one, after that the title became minister of defence ), an agricultural engineer, had in the middle of WWII been concerned in sending Dutch farmers to Ukraine as colonists, to Germanize the country.
 
Last edited:

delft

Brigadier
From the BBC website:
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Ukraine crisis: Deadly anti-autonomy protest outside parliament

One national guard member has been killed and about 100 injured in violent protests outside Ukraine's parliament, the interior ministry said.

Clashes between nationalists and riot police erupted after MPs gave initial backing to reforms for more autonomy in the rebel-held east.

National guardsmen were pelted with fire crackers and petrol bombs as explosions were heard.

The reforms are part of a peace plan to end fighting in eastern Ukraine.

Protesters led by the populist Radical Party and the ultra-nationalist Svoboda (Freedom) party - who fear the loss of the east to Russian-backed separatists - gathered outside parliament early on Monday.

After a rowdy debate, 265 MPs out of 450 backed the first reading of the decentralisation bill, granting more powers to areas of Donetsk and Luhansk.

Initially, there were only minor clashes but a BBC correspondent then heard small explosions followed by a much larger one - apparently from a grenade.

At the scene: Svyatoslav Khomenko, BBC News, Kiev
The demonstrators numbered barely more than a few dozen - mainly young men, most of them masked. They started the fights with police, but others supported them.

The protesters tried to pull the policemen away from their lines. They beat them and took their shields and helmets. Soon about a dozen young men were almost as well-equipped as the police.

Several times the atmosphere near the building seemed to calm down for a while, with clashes starting up again. And then the explosions began.

I saw some people - policemen and firemen - falling to the ground, and some running away from the site, limping. I saw pools of blood just near the wall of parliament.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


The Ukrainian Interior Minister, Arsen Avakov, said some 30 people have been detained, including a Svoboda member who confessed to throwing a grenade.

He bitterly criticised Svoboda leader Oleh Tyahnybok,
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
that several explosive devices had been thrown by people wearing Svoboda T-shirts.

A policeman's leg was torn off below the knee in the blast, Interfax Ukraine reported, while journalists at the scene were also reported injured.

Shaky peace
Almost 7,000 people have died since the conflict in eastern Ukraine broke out in March 2014, after Russia's annexation of the Ukrainian peninsula of Crimea.

Pushing through greater autonomy for the rebel-held areas is a key part of the Minsk peace deal, originally signed in February.

During the summer, fighting between Ukrainian army forces and the rebels has escalated. But the two sides agreed last week to halt the violence on 1 September, the day children in the region return to school.

Although the number of ceasefire violations appears to have fallen in recent days, OSCE monitors have warned that neither side was respecting the truce.

Under the draft constitutional changes going through parliament, there will be a special law covering local government in rebel-held areas.

However, parliament speaker Volodymyr Hroysman was adamant that would not mean special status for Donetsk and Luhansk, which rebel leaders have declared republics.

If President Petro Poroshenko is to succeed in pushing through the reforms, he will need the support of 300 MPs, seen as a tall order for the Ukrainian leader.

He is due to address the nation on the proposals and the violence outside parliament later on Monday.
I understand the Donbass people do not accept this proposal even if 300 Rada members were to agree to it.
 

delft

Brigadier
Delft,

It seems as if the population of Ukraine is very polarized between autonomy and against. Could you help us understand why such contrast.
I have no direct information about politics in Ukraine. I happen to know a woman from Nikolayev, a friend of my wife, and her husband from the same place who met while students in Kiev, but they left there many years ago. I just read the papers, the BBC website and the website of The Saker.
 

Miragedriver

Brigadier
sCdmD83.jpg

Ukrainian protesters clash with police after a vote to give greater powers to the east, outside the parliament building in Kiev, Ukraine
Picture: AP Photo/Efrem Lukatsky


Back to bottling my Grenache
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
Ukrainian protestors have a terrible habit of launching into violent attacks on police.

Started during the Midan "protests" (more like organised riots) where lots of police officers were killed and many more badly injured, and has persisted ever since.

I don't care what your grievance may be, the second you raise a hand to police officers, you make yourself fair game to a bit of street justice, and then the court kind.

Lets be clear, I'm not advocating unprovoked police brutality, but you should really only except one response if you are stupid enough to attack the police.
 

delft

Brigadier
When the BBC get as far as this .....
From BBC website:
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Ukraine crisis: Is conflict fuelling far-right threat?
By David Stern BBC News, Kiev

The centre of Kiev became a scene of blood and broken bodies last week - as though the conflict in Ukraine's east suddenly had been transported to the capital.

The deaths of three members of the national guard in an explosion reignited a debate over what some see as the potentially damaging influence of the country's far-right parties and volunteer militias fighting in the country's east.

More than 140 others were wounded in the blast, apparently caused by a grenade, during a demonstration against plans to give more autonomy to the country's Russian-supported separatist regions.

It also raised concerns over what appears to be an increasing infiltration of weapons from the warzone into the rest of the country.

'Another front'
These are the first politically-related fatalities in the capital since the country's pro-European revolution in February last year, in which more than 100 people died.

Authorities have blamed the explosion on Ihor Humenyuk, a fighter in the Sich volunteer battalion.

Sich falls under the control of the interior ministry, but maintains strong connections to the far-right Freedom Party, which was one of the rally's main organisers.

Freedom Party activists - including its leader Oleh Tyahnybok - were at the epicentre of the clashes with the police.
Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk said ultra-nationalists were "worse" than Russian-backed separatists in the east, because they were "trying to open another front" in the country "under the guise of patriotism".

So far, 16 people have been arrested for suspected involvement in the incident, including Mr Humenyuk. A number of others, like Mr Tyahnybok, were to be questioned.

Mr Humenyuk has denied throwing a grenade.

Freedom Party members likewise reject any responsibility, and accuse the government of orchestrating a witch hunt against them.

They say Mr Humenyuk is not associated with them - even though he was featured on one of their recent campaign posters.

Control of militias
But the explosion come weeks after another armed incident involving a volunteer militia with ties to the extreme right -
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
and local police in south-western Ukraine.

Both incidents have shone a light on the link between groups with extreme politics, and those with access to weapons.

There are dozens of volunteer groups, providing vital support to operations in the east.

Of these, about 11 have ties to political parties or organisations, of which at least seven have some sort of connection to the far-right fringe.

Although the militias have been nominally integrated into government structures, many wonder how much control Kiev actually exercises.

And although the majority of these groups' fighters appear free of radical right sentiments, ultra-nationalists - often visible by their tattoos and t-shirts - definitely figure among their numbers.

This is a feature on both sides of the frontline in the east, with the Russian-backed militants attracting what appears to be a large contingent of nationalist extremists.

However, the heads of the pro-Kiev battalions, like that of Sich itself, say they are not political, or have no intention of using force.

"We do not plan to march on Kiev with our automatics," Sich battalion commander Olexander Pisarenko
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


Anger rising
As for the ultra-nationalists, few believe that they pose an electoral threat.

Freedom and Right Sector up until now have been marginal political forces. Indeed, the violence at parliament could be an attempt to compensate for a lack of support among the population.

However, the political landscape could begin to shift with the arrival with colder weather.

The economy is deteriorating, painful reforms such as a rise in utility tariffs are set to kick in this autumn, and issues such as granting increased powers to the breakaway regions, which some see as a capitulation to Moscow, have struck a very emotional nerve.

It should be emphasised that the chance of an armed insurrection is a highly distant prospect right now.

But, even if the battalions keep out of the political fray, there is still the issue of the individual fighters.

Anger among them is rising. Many accuse the government of criminal mishandling of the conflict, which have led to the deaths of untold numbers on the battlefield.

In contrast to their commanders, some fighters do speak of coming to Kiev en masse, if necessary. One in
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
, in Ukrainian, of staging terrorist acts.

Weapons easily obtained
Previous attempts to rein in extremist elements have in some cases stalled.

Right Sector, for example, is still relatively free of government control, despite the fact that it openly confronted law enforcement authorities.

But with the deaths of the three national guardsmen - so young, and at what was supposed to be a peaceful demo so far from the front lines - attitudes in Ukrainian society may be changing, and people could demand action from the government.

The Freedom Party (Svoboda in Ukrainian), despite its low electoral numbers, is still viewed by many as a patriotic organisation, and was a central player in the revolution last year.

Now, some question its contribution.

"There are few people in Ukraine who work for Putin so selflessly as Ukrainian nationalists from the party 'Svoboda'," Oleg Shankovskyi, an editor at the Ukrainska Pravda website, wrote on Facebook.

At the very least, there is the alarming fact that guns - and explosives - seem to be very easily obtained, and can be used to further any political, financial or criminal interest.

Or they could simply fall into the hands of some angry, disaffected individual - as the person who threw the grenade at the parliament protest may have been.
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
When the BBC get as far as this .....
From BBC website:
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

This is another potential time bomb created by certain ideological zealots in certain countries.

One should look back at OBL to see how easily mad dogs unleashed against a perceived foe could come back and bite their former masters on the backside.

Look further back in history, and only fools or madman would allow the spectre of the far-right any purchase in Europe again.
 
Russian view of Ukraine LOL
the Head of The Investigative Committee of Russia
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

said, for the record,
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

(in
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

quoted by ТАСС
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

etc.)
that the Ukraine Prime Minister
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

had fought against the Russians in
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

(he was 20 and a half years old at that time, I already checked)
As you might guess, Mr. Bastrykin accused him of committing atrocities there, and of being awarded by
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


even many debaters under the blog of "Cassad" sound skeptical
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


EDIT
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

backed this up, though:
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
 
Last edited:
Top