UK Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

Read the news recently and I was shock at the decision to abandon the Harrier and other carrier based aircrafts and yet retain the building of the two carriers.

It was like - you would have a carrier but no aircraft on it... so whats the use for the carriers?

Astute run aground

rhino123 said:

Read the news recently and I was shock at the decision to abandon the Harrier and other carrier based aircrafts and yet retain the building of the two carriers.

It was like - you would have a carrier but no aircraft on it... so whats the use for the carriers?

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Unless you have a very healthy heart that can sustain multiple shocks,you would be best advised to stop reading the UK news.>>>>

The Royal Navy's newest and largest attack submarine HMS Astute has run aground off Skye, the Ministry of Defence (MoD) has confirmed.

An eye-witness said the sub - described as the stealthiest ever built in the UK - appeared to have grounded.

A Ministry of Defence spokeswoman said: "This is not a nuclear incident."

"We are responding to the incident and can confirm that there are no injuries to personnel and the submarine remains watertight."

The spokeswoman added: "There is no indication of any environmental impact."

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rhino123 said:

Read the news recently and I was shock at the decision to abandon the Harrier and other carrier based aircrafts and yet retain the building of the two carriers.

It was like - you would have a carrier but no aircraft on it... so whats the use for the carriers?

Click to expand...

A lot of posters on other forums and the media in general have been getting confused about this. The Harriers were to provide carrier aircraft for the existing carrier force, i.e. the Invincibles, not the QEs. When the QEs enter service they will have F-35Cs to operate. It is the next ten years when we will be vulnerable. Effectively this government has rung the dinner bell for anyone wanting to grab British overseas territories, because until the QEs and Lightning 'C are in service we will have no means of retaking them.

On the plus side we still have Naval FJ pilots and will d so for some yeas yet, albeit flying US aircraft from US carriers, the first 12 are already out there and I would expect 800NAS to follow next year, to maintain the skills base.

Obi Wan Russell said:

It is the next ten years when we will be vulnerable. Effectively this government has rung the dinner bell for anyone wanting to grab British overseas territories, because until the QEs and Lightning 'C are in service we will have no means of retaking them.

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But the answer to that is to make sure you don't lose them by getting caught with your trousers down as we were in 1982. Some hysterical posters on non-military forums I use were claiming that the Falklands have been left undefended by this week's announcement. Well the garrison there is more than capable of dealing with anything that Argentina could throw at it in the foreseeable future. If they did start re-arming then the garrison could be bolstered, in any case there is no appetite at all in Argentina for a Falklands 2. Senora Kirchener may make bellicose noises goaded on by Uncle Hugo but the population at large isn't interested in any military adventure.

Apart from the Falklands it's actually difficult to see what other UK territories face an external threat. I really can't see the Spanish wanting to invade Gibraltar, at a stretch maybe Belize if Guatamalea reignites it's territorial claim but I can't see that happening.

Obi Wan, or others with knowledge, what about the news that one QE might become an amphib / commando carrier instead of a full CV, or that one QE might even be mothballed and then sold later? Is there anything to it, or are these just wild guesses? I've read that somewhere, but can't find the source right now.
I hope the countries in europe get their finances in order rather soon, to be able to support a credible military base.

Scratch said:

Obi Wan, or others with knowledge, what about the news that one QE might become an amphib / commando carrier instead of a full CV, or that one QE might even be mothballed and then sold later? Is there anything to it, or are these just wild guesses? I've read that somewhere, but can't find the source right now.
I hope the countries in europe get their finances in order rather soon, to be able to support a credible military base.

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What matters is both carriers will be built. Everything else you hear is just noise. The RN brass won't mind the ConDems telling all sorts of stories about one or two in service, or selling one. Not going to happen. After all the sacrifice t get them built, the Navy isn't going to let them go. The current crop of clowns in government won't be making the descisions ten years from now, that's for sure. If they could have cancelled the ships they would have done it now, so they will be built for sure.
Result!

Scratch said:

Obi Wan, or others with knowledge, what about the news that one QE might become an amphib / commando carrier instead of a full CV, or that one QE might even be mothballed and then sold later? Is there anything to it, or are these just wild guesses? I've read that somewhere, but can't find the source right now.
I hope the countries in europe get their finances in order rather soon, to be able to support a credible military base.

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The announced plan is that QE will be built to the original design and enter service in 2016 replacing HMS Iluustrious, Ark Royal and Invincible having been disposed off before then, she will operate as a commando carrier for a few years before PoW enters service as a CATOBAR carrier but she won't have a fast jet air group until the F-35's arrive in 2020. Once PoW is in service, the official annoucement was that QE will "go into reserve," a phase that contains a multitude of possibilities some good, others bad.

The only talk of her being sold was in the media. In reality who is going to be in the market for a 65,000 tonne flat top? France? Possibly but they have their own economic problems. China? They'd love to have it I'm sure but I can't see that happening. India? Possibly they are planning the similarly sized INS Vishal but I suspect they'd want to build the ship themselves for patriotic reasons. If you love the RN then the good scenario is after the UK quits A-stan in 2014/15 that allows a run down of the Army which frees up funds to enable QE to be modified to CATOBAR and retained in service. The bad scenario is that the economic sistuation doesn't improve markedly, a further defence review is held after the next election and both carriers get turned into razor blades.

I'm not offering odd either way

Obi Wan Russell said:

What matters is both carriers will be built. Everything else you hear is just noise. The RN brass won't mind the ConDems telling all sorts of stories about one or two in service, or selling one. Not going to happen. After all the sacrifice t get them built, the Navy isn't going to let them go. The current crop of clowns in government won't be making the descisions ten years from now, that's for sure. If they could have cancelled the ships they would have done it now, so they will be built for sure.
Result!

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The problem with that is looking at all the other defence screw ups over the last decade, if there is a change of government next time we will simply be trading one bunch of clowns for another!

I have a technical question.

If Argentina attacks the Falksland in the next 9 years, could those those decommissioned carriers and Harriers be got back in combat status rapidly?

cloyce said:

I have a technical question.

If Argentina attacks the Falksland in the next 9 years, could those those decommissioned carriers and Harriers be got back in combat status rapidly?

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After next year the Harriers are history. An ignominious end for one of the greatest British aircraft designs ever (at least in UK service). If Ark Royal is kept in extended readiness as Invincible is currently then I think it would take a few months to get it back in service, certainly ruling out the type of operation that happened in 1982.