UK Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

Obi Wan Russell said:

Try this for a bit of light relief from all the doom and gloom!

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:rofl::nana:

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Thats so funny. He must have been reading to many comics of the Japanese variety? He should stick to "Commando" or the other one I use to purchase for one andthrup-pence. "Air Ace " or something like that, or the funnies with "Billy Bunter"

The BBC Newsnight programme tonight featured claimed insights into the UK defence review's spending cuts and revealed :-

David Cameron personally intervened to strike a deal between the treasury and M.O.D.for cuts of around 10%.( previously expected or planned cuts = 20% )

1.Reduction of army personnel by 7000 ( reorganising into 5 brigades of 6000 )
2.Reduction of JSF order from 138 to 40.
3.Reduction of major surface fleet (i.e. destroyers and frigates) from 24 to 16.
4.Both new carriers to be realised but one to be used as helicopter carrier initially.
5.New defence strategy outlining likely threats to be >
Tier 1 = Terrorist attack
= Cyber attack ( currently taking place)
= Natural disaster
= Military conflict

The above information was put forward by the BBC economics editor Paul Mason who claimed to have been handed a draft.Currently bits and pieces of information are being reported by various sources and the newspapers have their own take on things too.I guess much of it will be speculation but there is likely to be some truth mixed in as well.

Well now we have the details of Defence Budget and can see what is in store for the new Carriers. I think no doubt about it, had it not been for the penalties, they would have been scrapped outright.

As it is, it seems likely that neither will launch a new UK Jet Aircraft and that POW will be a "Flight Deck for Hire" after being redesigned for Catapult Operation. This itself is also interesting as it comes after some intense lobbying from Hilary to Mr Hague, so I wonder if this means that the US is planning to reduce its own Carrier Fleet?

Anyhow a timeline for our Carrier Fleet published today by the Scotsman

Aircraft carriers: Timeline

Published Date: 19 October 2010
By Unknown
October 2010 - Ark Royal, the last of the current carriers in service to be mothballed with immediate effect. HMS Ocean, the helicopter carrier, will also be mothballed - the aircraft carrier HMS Illustrious will be brought back as a helicopter carrier.
2014 - Crew of Illustrious transfer to new super carrier HMS Queen Elizabeth for sea trials and Illustrious will be decommissioned. HMS Ocean will be brought back into service.

2016 - HMS Queen Elizabeth brought into service as a helicopter carrier and HMS Ocean decommissioned.

2017 - HMS Ocean crew transferred to new super carrier HMS Prince of Wales for sea trials

2019 - HMS Prince of Wales launched as a helicopter carrier and HMS Queen Elizabeth mothballed after four years and never carrying a strike fighter

2020 - HMS Prince of Wales becomes an aircraft carrier with a scaled-down cheaper version of the new joint strike fighters. Its catapult launch system design will also be adapted to allow US and French strike fighters to be launched from it.

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Thanks for posting SampanViking!

2020 - HMS Prince of Wales becomes an aircraft carrier with a scaled-down cheaper version of the new joint strike fighters.

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The CTOL version is not a scaled-down cheaper version of the JSF. It's just as capable. It's just not a VTOL aircraft.

Its catapult launch system design will also be adapted to allow US and French strike fighters to be launched from it.

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The catapults will probaly be the same as on USN & French CVNs. Hummm Are EMALs cats a possibility??

Here are some bullet points from PM Cameron's speech in the House of Commons currently ongoing.

* £33Billion defence budget.

* £38Billion deficit.

* Defence budget to fall by 8% by 2015.

* Cuts not to affect operations in Afghanistan.

* Tanks and heavy artillery reduced by 40%.

* Naval manpower reduced by 5,000.

* RAF manpower reduced by 5000 by 2013.

* Army manpower reduced by 7,000.

* RAF Nimrod reconnaissance planes to be cancelled.
(RAF Kinloss military base to close )

* Harrier jets to be scrapped.

* Trident decision postponed until 2016.

* Troops to be brought home from Germany.

* 25,000 civilian jobs to be axed by 2015.

zoom said:

Here are some bullet points from PM Cameron's speech in the House of Commons currently ongoing.

* £33Billion defence budget.

* £38Billion deficit.

* Defence budget to fall by 8% by 2015.

* Cuts not to affect operations in Afghanistan.

* Tanks and heavy artillery reduced by 40%.

* Naval manpower reduced by 5,000.

* RAF manpower reduced by 5000 by 2013.

* Army manpower reduced by 7,000.

* RAF Nimrod reconnaissance planes to be cancelled.
(RAF Kinloss military base to close )

* Harrier jets to be scrapped.

* Trident decision postponed until 2016.

* Troops to be brought home from Germany.

* 25,000 civilian jobs to be axed by 2015.

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this is sad beyond belief. The once great British navy which ruled half the world is now headed toward a green-water type naval force. Let's hope there is no Falklands type scenerio in the next few years otherwise the RN would be caught with zero naval airpower with the retiring of harriers.

kwaigonegin said:

this is sad beyond belief. The once great British navy which ruled half the world is now headed toward a green-water type naval force. Let's hope there is no Falklands type scenerio in the next few years otherwise the RN would be caught with zero naval airpower with the retiring of harriers.

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Yes it's sad but i pretty much agree with the decisions as we need to address the budget deficit and defence spending cannot escape this.If it didn't cost more to cancel the new cv's than to keep them i'm sure they would have been axed.It sounds ridiculous that we will have 2 brand new carriers but without fixed-wing aircraft until 2019 and like you said let's hope we don't have another Falklands.
I wonder,when they say the Ark Royal will be scrapped with immediate effect surely they really mean it will be kept in a condition that we can get it operational again in the event of such a crisis occuring? It doesn't sound like this is the case but why not?
The saddest thing for me is the impact to Kinloss and the surrounding community and even a possible ricochet somewhat on RAF Lossiemouth too.There are 1500 jobs at RAF Kinloss and many families do well from it.I hope the base can still be used for returning troops from Germany or some other purpose.
The Frigate/destroyer cut seems only to be from 23 to 19 which is better than expected.
There will be more emphasis on the use of UAV's and communication equipment and there will be 12 more Chinooks.
There will be procurement of a fleet of Astute class subs and construction of "more flexible" frigates so there is some good news.
The life of the existing Trident will be extended but warheads per boat reduced from 48 to 40 with the final decision on it's replacement put back to after the next election.
All in all,a penny saved is a penny gained.

Now let us brace ourselves for the real bad news tomorrow.

It's not great for the RN, but it could have been much worse - seven Astutes is something. I agree that the carriers might have been cancelled if the contract hadn't been so firm. The loss of the harriers is the biggest blow.

I'm not worried about another Falklands, as Argentina's armed forces are in a worse state than they were in the 1980s. No aircraft carrier, ageing submarines, pitiful surface fleet and airforce, etc. Then there's RAF Mount Pleasant's ability to fly in reinforcements, a larger garrison and a permanent fighter squadron stationed there.

Mr T said:

It's not great for the RN, but it could have been much worse - seven Astutes is something. I agree that the carriers might have been cancelled if the contract hadn't been so firm. The loss of the harriers is the biggest blow.

I'm not worried about another Falklands, as Argentina's armed forces are in a worse state than they were in the 1980s. No aircraft carrier, ageing submarines, pitiful surface fleet and airforce, etc. Then there's RAF Mount Pleasant's ability to fly in reinforcements, a larger garrison and a permanent fighter squadron stationed there.

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Agreed, Argentina simply doesn't have the capability to mount an invasion, if they tried something, like a paratroop drop, it would only result in lots of grieving mothers and widows. For all of Kirchener's hysterical rhetoric about oil exploration and next week's exercises there's no imminent threat.

On the carrier announcement, very disappointing but not really unexpected. At least the RN will get a CTOL carrier even if it has to wait a while. In hindsight CTOL should have been the preferred operational mode from the start. STOVL is great for light carriers but if you're building a 65,000 tonne carrier you might as well go for CTOL to take full advantage of the size. Choosing STOVL also meant the project depended on the F-35B whereas with CTOL you get the more capable F-35C and would have had the Super Hornet or Rafale as cheaper fallbacks if needed and would have had interoperability with the USN and the French.

Today's announcement has really exposed just how badly run the MoD has been in recent times, after the carrier announcement the one that really caught my eye was the £14bn over 25 years for the St. Athan defence college, something like £500 million/year, how did the costs on that get so out of control? :nono:

Agreed, Argentina simply doesn't have the capability to mount an invasion, if they tried something, like a paratroop drop, it would only result in lots of grieving mothers and widows. For all of Kirchener's hysterical rhetoric about oil exploration and next week's exercises there's no imminent threat.

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We weren't meaning a confrontation with Argentina again specifically but a similar type of battle requiring forward power projection in general. Anyway,I don't think we will get caught out like that again.We have typhoons based there and also sub patrols.

On the carrier announcement, very disappointing but not really unexpected. At least the RN will get a CTOL carrier even if it has to wait a while. In hindsight CTOL should have been the preferred operational mode from the start. STOVL is great for light carriers but if you're building a 65,000 tonne carrier you might as well go for CTOL to take full advantage of the size. Choosing STOVL also meant the project depended on the F-35B whereas with CTOL you get the more capable F-35C and would have had the Super Hornet or Rafale as cheaper fallbacks if needed and would have had interoperability with the USN and the French.

Today's announcement has really exposed just how badly run the MoD has been in recent times, after the carrier announcement the one that really caught my eye was the £14bn over 25 years for the St. Athan defence college, something like £500 million/year, how did the costs on that get so out of control?

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I don't focus the blame on the MoD but more like total government incompetence.I remember when New Labour began and the rumours were rife of them being really the Tory party in disguise.Now after 13 years of their governance,i can almost believe that old Labour actually got hijacked by the Monster Raving Looney Party.