Jura, I believe the Type 26 has a good chance of getting some foreign orders...I know the British would like to see that.
With an 8,000 tons displacement, with 8 x 6 CAMM VLS Cells, and 3 x 8 MK-141 full length VLS cells...that's a total of 72 VLS cells right there...with a 4.5 inch main gun, 2 x 20mm CIWS, 2 x 30mm auto cannons, 2 x mini-guns, 4 x general MG mounts, with two torpedo launchers, an oversized flight deck and enclosed hanger for 1 or 2 ASW helos, and then with the Type 997 Artisan Radar, the Type 2050 Bow sonar array, the 2087 towed sonar array...heck, 1 billion will be a bargain!
Time will tell...but these are really, IMHO, going to be destroyers with destroyer armament capabilities.
Scratch, given the size and all of the really great capabilities they are talking about for the Global Combat Ships (Type 26 FFGs)...I personally believe the Type 26 FFGs are going to coast a least one billion US dollars each before all is said an done.
With an 8,000 tons displacement, with 8 x 6 CAMM VLS Cells, and 3 x 8 MK-141 full length VLS cells...that's a total of 72 VLS cells right there...with a 4.5 inch main gun, 2 x 20mm CIWS, 2 x 30mm auto cannons, 2 x mini-guns, 4 x general MG mounts, with two torpedo launchers, an oversized flight deck and enclosed hanger for 1 or 2 ASW helos, and then with the Type 997 Artisan Radar, the Type 2050 Bow sonar array, the 2087 towed sonar array...heck, 1 billion will be a bargain!
Time will tell...but these are really, IMHO, going to be destroyers with destroyer armament capabilities.
With that I think you are really close to the £12B for 13 ships projection given above. And if the Type 26 will really look like what you describe, it will indeed be a properly strong destroyer. Easily outclassing the various destroyer like FFGs in some european navies. But therein lies the issue, I believe. If the UK does intent to export that design to european and/or other navies, whom do they see as having such requirenments?
I can't see anyone right now. Even in the RN, that vessel would stand right besides the Type 45.
And so I'm still puzzled by this whole GCS story. Initially, over a decade ago(?), it was a 6.850t, 141m warship costing around £500M.
Then, maybe 5-7 years back, due to financial concerns, the target became £250-300M, resulting in a 5.400t, 148m vessel.
And then, recently, it somehow morphed into a large, full up destroyer. Construction is to start next year, yet a final design doesn't seem to be available anywhere.
The first two concepts would have made sense for an (internationally saleable) multi-purpose / ASW FFG. But that last one, ... really not, IMO.
Well, if the time frame were right for the replacement of the Sachsen vessels, or other potential European DDGs (ie. class for the Spanish) maybe that would work.
The first Sachsen was commissioned in 2003...so a 2030 date might work. Simialry, the first [/URL]was commissioned in 2002, so a 2030 date might work there too. But then again, the air radar sensor fit on the Type 26 would seem to be inferior to these others..
Italy and France are building their FREMM designs so I do not see either of those nations having any interest and the FREMM will already be competition on the foreign market because it is beginning to get some foreign sales itself.
Agreed...except for the heavier sensor fit for the Darings, these new frigates are going to be of similar capabilities (and in some cases more)Scratch said:
asif iqbal
Lieutenant General
The question is not how much they cost but how many they will build
First was meant to be 12 x Type 045 DDG then they cut it to 10 then 8 then built only 6
Now it's 13 x Type 26 DDG which is one for one on the FFG replacement
How many will they actually build 6 or 7
SDR does not include any freeze on the numbers of Type 26 units to be built which means it's subject to change
Royal Navy "critical mass" is so thin even a single break down, damage or loss of a ship will severely restrain missions of the RN
6 x DDG and 13 x DDG will only give 21 DDG
The number could be lower, that's is a terrible number compared to 1982 Falkland where the number was over 50
First was meant to be 12 x Type 045 DDG then they cut it to 10 then 8 then built only 6
Now it's 13 x Type 26 DDG which is one for one on the FFG replacement
How many will they actually build 6 or 7
SDR does not include any freeze on the numbers of Type 26 units to be built which means it's subject to change
Royal Navy "critical mass" is so thin even a single break down, damage or loss of a ship will severely restrain missions of the RN
6 x DDG and 13 x DDG will only give 21 DDG
The number could be lower, that's is a terrible number compared to 1982 Falkland where the number was over 50
asif iqbal
Lieutenant General
Type 45 is set for area defence, defending itself, it's escorts and a fixed land mass like a landing zone simultaneously
Type 26 is a multi purpose which I now call a DDG after the revised tonnage
The mission profile could be counter narcotics, special missions deployment, under water mine clearing, attack and defence basically all operations of a naval mission on one platform
Problem with that is that because it does so many missions split over a very small fleet the critical mass issue will keep coming up again and again
Currently RN missions are about to get another addition that is carrier escort, with such a low number of vessels there is no way RN can guarantee a continued presence in oceans, you cannot be in two places at once
Now I see a tonnage gap as someone said earlier, we need a 4000-5000 ton FFG for home waters , this would be for Russian counter, national water sea lanes and illegal operations
RN cannot afford to tie down a billion pound warship for chasing some trawlers or escorting a lost Russian warship
Not good use of tax payers money
Jura The idiot
General
Jeff, Scratch, liked your recent posts here 
have questions:
so you rule out all "Germany, Canada, Australia, Brazil, India and Turkey all require new frigates and are known to have an interest in the Type 26 design." as mentioned in the blog I posted
?
Plus here
... I concur
have questions:so you rule out all "Germany, Canada, Australia, Brazil, India and Turkey all require new frigates and are known to have an interest in the Type 26 design." as mentioned in the blog I posted
?
would you guess how does it compare to the SAMPSON?
Plus here
... I concur
Well no, certainly not per se. I do, however, think that in it's latest 8.000t DD(G) iteration the Type 26 will not fullfill what is the "most nearby" need of most of those navies. Unless perhaps it is massively scalable.
If we look at it the way Jeff did, replacing Sachsen and Alvaro de Bazan type ships in the 2030s, essentially after all the RN vessel would already have been built, there might be a point for the larger navies to replace their top-end vessels. However, to me it would seem odd to be a foreign partner willing to keep the production line going after home requirenments have been fullfilled in 15 years.
The Indians are just building their 15A and B destroyers, six of them, replacements are decades into the future. Same for the Aussies who just decided for Hobert class ships.
Canada perhaps for their Iroquios DDGs, I can't really talk about Brazil or Turkey, they might in fact be candidates. That is the class in which I see the current Type 26.
What, on the other hand, is really on the table right now - I believe - are replacements for the OHP type (ASW) FFGs in different navies. Adelaide, maybe Halifax, Santa Maria, the Brandenburgs, etc.
The Indians might seek assistance in the 17A project.
Going from the aforementioned to the 26 would be a massive modernization and then some, plus a rudimentary amphib capability. That will mean a lot of capacity in a few units due to money.
The german MKS180, that I think came out of the K131 ASuW corvette, and hopefully also a long term replacement for the F123 ASW FFGs, is now already at 5.500t I believe, and supposed to top out at €300M. And the Type 26, that intents to compete is 2.500t heavier still.
All of the above keeps me puzzled as what to make of the whole thing.
We certainly do need new ships, but I do think even the FREMMs are at the very top of what fits the bill here.
