HMS Astute
Junior Member
[video=youtube;DsmfCCxa26M]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsmfCCxa26M[/video]
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
Shouldn't that be titled "Being stalked by Megatron"?
HMS Astute
Junior Member
A total of 22 Atlas aircraft have been ordered by the UK and will be delivered in the coming years with the air force receiving another two next month. The type will operate from RAF Brize Norton and will operate alongside the massive C-17 and smaller C-130 aircraft for a while before eventually replacing the service’s venerable fleet of C-130 Hercules.
HMS Astute
Junior Member
Re: Indian Military News II
Obviously, P-8 doesn't offer the capability that the M0D requires especially when it comes to the range. Even the old decommissioned MPA like Nimrod offered the range of up to 9,265km compared to only 2,222km of P-8. I wish UK defence contractors would propose new MPA programmes like Nimrod II which will be superior to P-8 at least in terms of range, payload, and speed.
Obviously, P-8 doesn't offer the capability that the M0D requires especially when it comes to the range. Even the old decommissioned MPA like Nimrod offered the range of up to 9,265km compared to only 2,222km of P-8. I wish UK defence contractors would propose new MPA programmes like Nimrod II which will be superior to P-8 at least in terms of range, payload, and speed.
HMS Astute
Junior Member
Re: Indian Military News II
You refere to the 2,222 kms (from Wikipedia I presume) as the range for the P-8, when that is not the case at all. That is the Combat Radius which is a significantly different term.
The P-8A has a 1,200 nautical mile combat radius (2,220 km). The P-8 team has defined that to mean that it can go out 1,200 nautical miles, and then remain on station patrolling for 4 hours, before having to RTB. It's crusiing speed while on patrol is 450 knots. So it has a significantly longer range than what you refer to.
And that is unrefueled. The P-8A is capable of inflight refueling so it can arrange to remain on station or get to whatever AO it needs to and remain there for very long periods of time.
While there it can provide it ample weapons store, including a very large number of sonar buoys, Torpedoes, surface to air missiles, etc. as well as its very advanced and sophisticated sensors and electronics to its mission.
Now, let's talk about the Nimrod.
As designed and produced it was unable to do inflight refueling. But it did have that magnificent unrefueled range of between 8,500 and 9,200 liometers depending on conditions.
During the Flaklands war, the MR2P refit was rushed into production so that it could be refueled in flight. However, in September 2006, while over Afghanistan, a Nimrod exploded in flight right after refueling resulting in the loss of all onboard and the aircraft. The resulting inquiry showed that there was a fundamental design flaw with the Nimrod's fuel system, whicb resulted in part from the hastily performed air-to-air refuelling modification made for the Falklands conflict. From that point, all inflight refuleing was suspended for the Nimrod fleet until their retirement.
But it was indeed a good aircraft and served very ably for decades. Due to poor decision making and delays by government officials, now the UK has now MPA capability.
So, right now, the UK is looking at the P-8A. And the P-8A is a very good, very capable MPA and ASW aircraft. I personally believe that the UK will end up purchasing P-8As. But time will tell.
But to say that the P-8A is inadequate for the UKs needs is just incorrect.
Will the UK choose them? We shall see. Maybe not. But they are available and they are being seriously considered.
Your statement needs significant clarification.
You refere to the 2,222 kms (from Wikipedia I presume) as the range for the P-8, when that is not the case at all. That is the Combat Radius which is a significantly different term.
The P-8A has a 1,200 nautical mile combat radius (2,220 km). The P-8 team has defined that to mean that it can go out 1,200 nautical miles, and then remain on station patrolling for 4 hours, before having to RTB. It's crusiing speed while on patrol is 450 knots. So it has a significantly longer range than what you refer to.
And that is unrefueled. The P-8A is capable of inflight refueling so it can arrange to remain on station or get to whatever AO it needs to and remain there for very long periods of time.
While there it can provide it ample weapons store, including a very large number of sonar buoys, Torpedoes, surface to air missiles, etc. as well as its very advanced and sophisticated sensors and electronics to its mission.
Now, let's talk about the Nimrod.
As designed and produced it was unable to do inflight refueling. But it did have that magnificent unrefueled range of between 8,500 and 9,200 liometers depending on conditions.
During the Flaklands war, the MR2P refit was rushed into production so that it could be refueled in flight. However, in September 2006, while over Afghanistan, a Nimrod exploded in flight right after refueling resulting in the loss of all onboard and the aircraft. The resulting inquiry showed that there was a fundamental design flaw with the Nimrod's fuel system, whicb resulted in part from the hastily performed air-to-air refuelling modification made for the Falklands conflict. From that point, all inflight refuleing was suspended for the Nimrod fleet until their retirement.
But it was indeed a good aircraft and served very ably for decades. Due to poor decision making and delays by government officials, now the UK has now MPA capability.
So, right now, the UK is looking at the P-8A. And the P-8A is a very good, very capable MPA and ASW aircraft. I personally believe that the UK will end up purchasing P-8As. But time will tell.
But to say that the P-8A is inadequate for the UKs needs is just incorrect.
Will the UK choose them? We shall see. Maybe not. But they are available and they are being seriously considered.
HMS Astute
Junior Member
Re: Indian Military News II
UK could equip Reaper with the Selex ES Seaspray 7500E multi-mode radar to provide an effective maritime surveillance system with potential further to expand the capability through additional podded systems. Such a solution would also confer greater operational flexibility since the Seaspray radar can be fitted/removed in a matter of hours. It is relevant to this potential enhancement, and indeed to other roles, that GA-ASI is developing field-retrofittable wings with internal fuel tanks that extend Predator B endurance by some 56%, to 42 hours. If we can cover surface surveillance from unmanned assets and can do ASW cueing from standoff SOSUS/SURTASS backed with Fleet subs and frigate tactical towed arrays do we need the airborne platform to be an all-singing all-dancing platform like a P-8?. In the near to medium term would something like a refurb S-3B be all that would be required for a quick reaction long range torpedo shooter tasking?.
To my mind the only move we need to make here, in the very short term, is to clarify the issue with unmanned ops in UK airspace then put in an order with Selex for half a dozen Seaspray 7500E sets and the General Atomics pylon/pod assemblies to mount them to our Reapers. After that one of the current RAF Reaper squadrons assumes a maritime co-operation tasking. That should buy us several years to see where the subsurface threat is heading before pouring billions of taxpayer's hard earned money on a foreign defence industry. UK and France should consider establishing a new joint programme (eg, Concorde) for new MPA which will create many jobs, boost the local defence industries and also give the potential opportunities to sell to European partners and others around the world.
UK could equip Reaper with the Selex ES Seaspray 7500E multi-mode radar to provide an effective maritime surveillance system with potential further to expand the capability through additional podded systems. Such a solution would also confer greater operational flexibility since the Seaspray radar can be fitted/removed in a matter of hours. It is relevant to this potential enhancement, and indeed to other roles, that GA-ASI is developing field-retrofittable wings with internal fuel tanks that extend Predator B endurance by some 56%, to 42 hours. If we can cover surface surveillance from unmanned assets and can do ASW cueing from standoff SOSUS/SURTASS backed with Fleet subs and frigate tactical towed arrays do we need the airborne platform to be an all-singing all-dancing platform like a P-8?. In the near to medium term would something like a refurb S-3B be all that would be required for a quick reaction long range torpedo shooter tasking?.
To my mind the only move we need to make here, in the very short term, is to clarify the issue with unmanned ops in UK airspace then put in an order with Selex for half a dozen Seaspray 7500E sets and the General Atomics pylon/pod assemblies to mount them to our Reapers. After that one of the current RAF Reaper squadrons assumes a maritime co-operation tasking. That should buy us several years to see where the subsurface threat is heading before pouring billions of taxpayer's hard earned money on a foreign defence industry. UK and France should consider establishing a new joint programme (eg, Concorde) for new MPA which will create many jobs, boost the local defence industries and also give the potential opportunities to sell to European partners and others around the world.
HMS Astute
Junior Member
No doubt it is a very good MPA which also has a lot of potential to steadily grow more and more capable in coming decades. P-8 is probably the only maritime patrol platform in the world that promises comparable capabilities to those that would have been delivered by the Nimrod MRA4. The Nimrod would have been an absolute world leader, beating the P8 in every aspect, from the number of sonobuoys (150 against 120) to the number of weapon bay stations (9 vs 5) to, more importantly, sensors fit and, crucially, mission range and endurance.
Unfortunately, the Nimrod MRA4 is now gone, and the P8 is by far the best option among those available on the market. But, relying too much on foreign defence contractors will seriously hurt the local arm industries, opportunities for young graduates, talented engineers, and prospect of developing new products and innovations. Regarding with the capability, P8 has a 6 hours mission endurance at a range of 1,100 km from the base, and 4 hours at a 2,000 km range. Surprisingly, the P8 is built with a fuel receptacle that can be used to refuel in flight from boom-equipped tankers such as the USAF’s ones, but it does not have a probe to refuel from drogue-tankers (for eg, RAF A400M, A330 MRTT), used by most NATO allies. Anyway, we will see what is going to happen to armed forces in next year defence review.
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
HMS Astute
Junior Member
UK and Japan To Collaborate On Meteor Guidance
Britain and Japan intend to cooperatively research improvements for the MBDA Meteor, raising the possibility of combining that air-to-air missile’s ramjet propulsion and range with an advanced electronically scanned seeker.
Japan could equip its Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightnings with the improved Meteor, Japanese media reported, citing unnamed government officials. It is presumed the weapon will also be available for British F-35s and Eurofighter Typhoons, as well as to export customers.
Ministers in the National Security Council approved the collaborative effort on July 17, expecting to sign the agreement with Britain as soon as September. The program so far seems to be limited to early research and assessment — no schedule for development has been disclosed.
"We welcome the decision by the government of Japan to share information on missile-seeker technology with the U.K.," said a spokesman for the British Ministry of Defense.
The program is likely to focus on the guidance technology in the Mitsubishi Electric AAM-4B air-to-air missile, which entered production in 2010 to equip Japanese Boeing F-15s and Mitsubishi Heavy Industries’s F-2s. Britain has sought "advanced sensor technology" from Japanese companies, says the Japan Times.
The AAM-4B seeker with an active, electronically scanned array (AESA), that should significantly outperform radars with mechanically scanned antennas used in other missiles of medium-and long-range, including the Meteor. The better the missile radar, the greater the distance at which it can detect a target and the earlier the launching fighter can stop transmitting guidance commands and turn away for safety.
Britain and Japan intend to cooperatively research improvements for the MBDA Meteor, raising the possibility of combining that air-to-air missile’s ramjet propulsion and range with an advanced electronically scanned seeker.
Japan could equip its Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightnings with the improved Meteor, Japanese media reported, citing unnamed government officials. It is presumed the weapon will also be available for British F-35s and Eurofighter Typhoons, as well as to export customers.
Ministers in the National Security Council approved the collaborative effort on July 17, expecting to sign the agreement with Britain as soon as September. The program so far seems to be limited to early research and assessment — no schedule for development has been disclosed.
"We welcome the decision by the government of Japan to share information on missile-seeker technology with the U.K.," said a spokesman for the British Ministry of Defense.
The program is likely to focus on the guidance technology in the Mitsubishi Electric AAM-4B air-to-air missile, which entered production in 2010 to equip Japanese Boeing F-15s and Mitsubishi Heavy Industries’s F-2s. Britain has sought "advanced sensor technology" from Japanese companies, says the Japan Times.
The AAM-4B seeker with an active, electronically scanned array (AESA), that should significantly outperform radars with mechanically scanned antennas used in other missiles of medium-and long-range, including the Meteor. The better the missile radar, the greater the distance at which it can detect a target and the earlier the launching fighter can stop transmitting guidance commands and turn away for safety.