Type 95 Assault Rifle II

Re: Type 95 assault rifle

TerraN_EmpirE said:

Actually Yes.
That article is about two years old. the new offerings too US buyers also include such options. the main issue that kept them away was size and recoil however with Specter Dorctor, the Aimpoint micro T, Eotech EXPS3 series, Trijicon RMR, Leupold delta point and Insight MRD are small enough and rugged enough too do the job pistol mounted Red dots are on the rise in the sporting and special ops community. A number of pistol smiths now offer such mods and for years Sports shooters used C-more dot sights on custom makes for completions. Large Caliber Revolvers and semi autos offer mounting for low fixed magnification sights as well.
My primary goal though was too point out that there is every reason for them too be mounted on the Qbz95 I see no reason other then cost for not.

Click to expand...

Well no actually. Cost is not the only consideration, although it would be one of the main ones.

Other critical factors that the military needs to consider, but which civilians do not include reliability, logistics, ruggedness, flexibility etc.

It is one thing to bring your ridiculously over-exessovised gun to a climate controlled indoor range, or an outdoor range on a good day and get great accuracy out of it every time, and quite another thing to expect said same gun to work out in a battlefield every time, for hundreds of thousands of soldiers.

Even the best red dots or holos cannot survive anywhere close to the level of punishment iron sights could. You drop your rifle or knock it against a wall in your hast to get out of the way of an incoming round, and suddenly you might find your fancy optics smashed and useless.

You jump out of an IFV into the cold or vice versa and chances are you are not going to be seeing so good through your misted optics.

There are plenty of videos of the Type 95 being submersed in water for extended periods, and its ready to fire as soon as you shake off the excess liquid. Your fancy sights would have short circuited long before then.

Red dots and holos need batteries. One more thing to worry about keeping supplied in the field. I have heard plenty of stories from Iraqi Freedom about a lack of batteries rendering NVGs useless to not expect similar issues cropping up if you start issuing such sights en mass to hundreds of thousands of troopers. Wonder how many grunts would be singing the praises of their newly issued red dots or holos when a lack of batteries makes the little dots go away and they find themselves starting through a clear piece of glass trying to guess where the round is going to go.

Decent iron sights can also be rapidly re-dialed for different ranges. None of the red-dots or holos I have seen are quite so flexible.

And that's just a few reasons I came up with ottomh. I am sure there will be many more issues. And guess what, by the time they resolved all those issues and made red dots and holos that are suitable for massed battlefield deployment, the cost of these already ridiculously expensive gadgets will increase substantially still.

Fancy cool looking sights are nice to have, but in a world of finite resources, you have to priorities, and all armies, even the US army, have far more pressing things to spend their money on.

Re: Type 95 assault rifle

plawolf said:

I have heard, I just do not understand what point he was trying to make with that.

Click to expand...

Oh, because of your awesome evaluation that, PLA using 5.8mm rounds is "out of place", and the reason for PLA to do this "out of place" thing, is because "they are afraid of invadors take advantage of the local bullets, if they captured some."

So I was wandering, with this kind of mind, then CERTAIN COUNTRY trying to use this "odd" caliber of 6.8mm rounds - IT GOT TO BE THE SAME REASON! "out of place" design, in future that invadors at their soil, can not taking advantage of their captured rounds.

When I read many other of your post, I think many of them were actually good ones... But the previous one, with THAT kind of logic, I DO considering it trolling, and "trolling back", is the only reasonable response.

Re: Type 95 assault rifle

Red___Sword said:

Oh, because of your awesome evaluation that, PLA using 5.8mm rounds is "out of place", and the reason for PLA to do this "out of place" thing, is because "they are afraid of invadors take advantage of the local bullets, if they captured some."

So I was wandering, with this kind of mind, then CERTAIN COUNTRY trying to use this "odd" caliber of 6.8mm rounds - IT GOT TO BE THE SAME REASON! "out of place" design, in future that invadors at their soil, can not taking advantage of their captured rounds.

When I read many other of your post, I think many of them were actually good ones... But the previous one, with THAT kind of logic, I DO considering it trolling, and "trolling back", is the only reasonable response.

Click to expand...

Jezz mate, get a grip and take a chill pill.

Your entire rant seems to stem from a misunderstanding of what I wrote and meant.

Firstly, I never said the 5.8mm round is "out of place" (since I never actually used those exact words, I would love to know why they appeared in brackets in your post in the first place).

What I actually said was: "The choice of the 5.8mm was to make it different from NATO and Russian standard small cal. as much as it was because of the 5.8's own ballistic properties."

In case there is any doubt, that was never meant to be a slight on the 5.8mm.

It is no secret that the PLA evaluated both the NATO 5.56 and Russian/CIS 5.45 rounds as well as many other cals. before finally arriving at the 5.8mm. One of the reasons the PLA went to all that effort instead of simply choosing one of the afore mentioned standards was because of a desire to make sure captured Chinese weapons and ammo would not be readily available for use by invading hostile forces. That is well documented so I have no idea why you are making such a big fuss over it.

The reason the Americans are thinking about the 6.8mm is because the poor performance of the 5.56mm in Iraq and Afghanistan finally managed to convince them to look at a round with better stopping power, penetration and range. Funnily enough, they have arrived at the exact same results as that of a comprehensive British study done shortly after WWII which concluded that the ideal cal. is between 6.5mm and 7mm. A result the US first rejected when trying to set the standard NATO cal.

Re: Type 95 assault rifle

plawolf said:

The PLA has always gone out of its way to make its standard issue kit non-compatible with foreign standard issue equipment.

The choice of the 5.8mm was to make it different from NATO and Russian standard small cal. as much as it was because of the 5.8's own ballistic properties.

Click to expand...

You know what mate? Sometimes it is pointless of "finger pointing" and "finger pointing back.

"Whether plawolf has did something troll-ish, in this post?" further arguing, is pointless. For me, I just can't help to start this little arguing when people start to big-mouth on something which he don't really meant further (like 5.8mm round is MEANT to non-compatible with western caliber)

- Because you convinced yourself that PLA have documental evidence to use odd caliber rounds in order not to benifit any invadors, while USA do not have such documents, so PLA doing 5.8mm is meant for non-compatible, (aside from other ballistic properties) while USA doing 6.8mm is for performance enhancing?...

You know what, let's stop further trolling each other's IQ. I learnt NOT TO judge people by ONE post he made, and I like your OTHER POSTS. Whether I think you are "accidentally-mouth-fart" a bit on this issue or not, shall not de-rail this topic further and shall not stopping you from posting good posts on this thread or any other threads in future.

And I am sorry for any de-rail effect of the little augument of two of us, on this thread.

Re: Type 95 assault rifle

You have a very peculiar writing style which you might wish to correct, as I do not think 'did something trollish' or 'accidentally mouth fart' are acceptable terms to use to describe other members, even if you do put them in brackets.

I have no idea why you are having such a hard time accepting facts. The reason I said part of the rational for the PLA choosing the 5.8mm was to make it non-compatible with foreign small cal weapons is because that was what the designer of Type 95 said in an interview with a well respected Chinese magazine. Its not my personal opinion, it is fact.

Re: Type 95 assault rifle

The Chinese choose the 5.8mm has as much to do with its practical performance and the overall trend of world's development, as to the political climate at that time (the ruinous Cultural Revolution was still underway), and it was originally 5.81mm until they finally got practical and dropped this facade of political correctness in the feature, then become the 5.8mm as today.

Re: Type 95 assault rifle

plawolf said:

You have a very peculiar writing style which you might wish to correct, as I do not think 'did something trollish' or 'accidentally mouth fart' are acceptable terms to use to describe other members, even if you do put them in brackets.

I have no idea why you are having such a hard time accepting facts. The reason I said part of the rational for the PLA choosing the 5.8mm was to make it non-compatible with foreign small cal weapons is because that was what the designer of Type 95 said in an interview with a well respected Chinese magazine. Its not my personal opinion, it is fact.

Click to expand...

MwRYum said:

The Chinese choose the 5.8mm has as much to do with its practical performance and the overall trend of world's development, as to the political climate at that time (the ruinous Cultural Revolution was still underway), and it was originally 5.81mm until they finally got practical and dropped this facade of political correctness in the feature, then become the 5.8mm as today.

Click to expand...

@ MwRYum, Thanks for step in.

@ Plawolf, let's please just move on.

I wish I have more to contribute to this original topic, so instead of trying to be self-righteousness to make a claim, I might just throwing an interesting question.

There is claims in other thread (PLA body armor? I think), that NATO boday armor have had "real deal" of withstanding the directly hit, shot from russian SVD; while I guess PLA body armor never done such feat.
I heard claims Type 95 have a better armor penetration capability than SVD though. My question is, is this claim true?

Re: Type 95 assault rifle

If you flip back on this thread, you'll probably find a piece of writing claiming the 5.8 MG bullet has better penetration at range than the soviet 7.62R ball ammo.

As to the claim of interceptor vs 7.62R, it is more likely that the bullet was shot from a riced up AK47 (the Iraqis have a name for the scoped AK47 mod, I don't remember it off hand), not a SVD.

Re: Type 95 assault rifle

RedMercury said:

If you flip back on this thread, you'll probably find a piece of writing claiming the 5.8 MG bullet has better penetration at range than the soviet 7.62R ball ammo.

As to the claim of interceptor vs 7.62R, it is more likely that the bullet was shot from a riced up AK47 (the Iraqis have a name for the scoped AK47 mod, I don't remember it off hand), not a SVD.

Click to expand...

Thanks.

No, it is claimed a SVD, not AK; and yes I am aware 5.8 MG rounds got some heavier punch, but thanks for indicating that 5.8 MG rounds is has better penetration at range than the soviet 7.62R ball ammo.

How about 5.8 common rounds shot from type 95 standard assault rifle. VS. SVD 7.62, the penetration?

Re: Type 95 assault rifle

Different to normal Type 95 rifles.



Usual one we see



The 1st picture the trigger guard and foward hand grip is different. Also there are more cooling slots along the barrel. The Type 95 AR & LMG only had 3.

Also the upgraded Type 95 variant we saw a while back "Type 95G AR" only had 5 slots, though Type 95G LMG had 6. But one you look at either AR or LMG of the Type 95G it has still doesn't have similar front hand grip and trigger guard.