Type 560 Runs Aground

jon88 said:

Philippines is being hypocritical here. Malaysia have the same problems with the Philippines in the Spartly. However, all the incidents are not in the spotlight, mainly, because the Philippines chose to downplay it. You see, Malaysia is not China, so Philippines cannot play the "victim" in the international scene. It is to Philippines' advantage to put the spotlight to incidents involving China while putting a blind eye to incidents involving Malaysia and Indonesia. They even had some incidents with the Vietnamese but always kept a lid on it.

Yes, I agree with you that Taiwan( Republic of China) had the first and longest claim to the islands. By virtue of the international community recognizing that there is only one China, then mainland China should assume as the legal claimant. All other countries started claiming the islands much later. During the fall of Saigon, Vietnam aggressively occupied some of the Spratly which provoked Philippines to destroy Chinese and Vietnamese survey markers and occupy a few of the island. Malaysia followed suit in the early 80's and have destroyed and replaced a lot of Filipino and Vietnamese markers. Brunei lay her claims in the 2000's.

How do the countries involved handle this? Malaysia chose a diplomatic/ win win approach. The Philippines as usual, being a Westerner trapped in an Asian body, chose the confrontational/ zero sum gain approach. While the Philippines is still in the mist of a brawl, Malaysia is already sharing the revenues of joint oil ventures with China. Oil revenues already represent 40% of Malaysian government's source of fund. Filipinos knows that their democracy is dysfunctional and their politicians are mostly predatory and corrupt, but yet subscribe to their unrealistic approach. I really wonder what will the Philippines get once all the oil are gone.

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Hi Jon88 and welcome to SDF.
Please note though that we operate a very strict line on political posts and country bashing on this forum.
If you have not yet read the forum rules, I would recommend doing so to assist an enjoyable and pleasurable stay.

http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/ann...-before-posting-important-please-read-20.html

Please read all the way through as there are amendments over time.

Re: Type 560 Rans Aground

Well, not trying to bash, or inflame, the discussion, but, ignoring all the speculation about possible tactical or strategic motivations for the running-aground, does it seem to anyone else that this incident suggests that the skill and competency levels in the PLAN might not be quite ready for prime-time? This type of mishap during a campaign intended to demonstrate a dominating presence constitutes a monumental failure. I'd think that, in order to rectify the impression of ineptitude and incompetence, which I'm fairly sure I'm not the only one to derive, that the recovery mission must be executed both efficiently and flawlessly.

Re: Type 560 Rans Aground

Maritime Charts are never 100% accurate even if carefully updated on a regular basis. Storms, Tides and Geological disturbance can alter the sea floor quite dramatically. This is especially true of shallow littoral areas such as reefs and sand banks where the actual topography is in constant flux.

Sometimes warships will take chances to cut through shallows in order to gain an advantage over an adversary, esp if they think that there charts are better than the enemies. Its the same as a race driver fast overtaking on a bend: brilliant when it works, less so when it does'nt.

Re: Type 560 Rans Aground

joshuatree said:

That's essentially what the Filipinos did with the grounded BRP Sierra Madre. It now acts as a"base" for their soldiers watching over that respective reef.

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This topic is about the PLAN modern frigate 560 that recently grounded about 60 nautiical miles off the west coast of Palawan province , the incident above took place almost 2 decades ago involving a WW2 vintage vessel and should not be compared to this incident and please refrain from going Off-Topic or this thread might end up being close too ...

Re: Type 560 Rans Aground

Subedei said:

Well, not trying to bash, or inflame, the discussion, but, ignoring all the speculation about possible tactical or strategic motivations for the running-aground, does it seem to anyone else that this incident suggests that the skill and competency levels in the PLAN might not be quite ready for prime-time? This type of mishap during a campaign intended to demonstrate a dominating presence constitutes a monumental failure. I'd think that, in order to rectify the impression of ineptitude and incompetence, which I'm fairly sure I'm not the only one to derive, that the recovery mission must be executed both efficiently and flawlessly.

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Recently the British Royal Navy managed to beach their newest nuclear attack sub in a Scottish Loch. And we know how well trained RN Submariners are. Accidents happen. Anyway the Commander was relieved of his duty after a an inquiry.
Accidents happen. Human nature for you.

Re: Type 560 Rans Aground

ManilaBoy45 said:

This topic is about the PLAN modern frigate 560 that recently grounded about 60 nautiical miles off the coast of Palawan province , the incident above is almost 2 decades ago involving a WW2 vintage vessel and should not be compared... Please refrain from going Off-Topic or this thread might end up being close too ...

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There's an old saying in English, "two can play at that game" isn't it? Though give it a few days we'll soon find out if that's really the case...but honestly a frigate hull based on the Soviet's Riga Class design isn't that suitable for a "foothold establishment" job, base is just too narrow to sit on the seabed securely, especially in a region where there're typhoons passes by in Summer.

And BTW, there's nothing "modern" about the FFG 560, a 053H1G "Jianghu-V" design - they might be built in the 1990's but it's an obsolete design by all account.

Re: Type 560 Rans Aground

What does everone think will happen to the Captain of FFG560? Under Mao and Stalin, he might get a bullett in the back of his head, but about today? Reassigned as commander of a toxic waste hauler?

Re: Type 560 Rans Aground

Grounded Frigate Finally Sighted by a Philippines Aircraft 3 Days After it Happened, naval and coast guard vessels have been deployed to the area to monitor the ongoing salvage operations and would provide assistance if requested ...




Asia Pacific News


Philippines Plane Sights Stranded Chinese Warship
Posted: 14 July 2012 1952 hrs


MANILA: A Philippine military aircraft confirmed Saturday that a Chinese naval frigate remains stranded in disputed waters of the South China Sea, a military spokesman said.

The Chinese frigate and smaller craft were sighted by a Philippine Islander plane, said regional military spokesman Colonel Neil Anthony Estrella.

"During the aerial reconnaissance mission, they were able to confirm, based on photographs, that there is indeed a ship with bow number 560 aground at Half Moon Shoal," he told AFP.

He said five more vessels and a number of smaller boats were assisting the grounded ship.

A navy ship and a coast guard vessel had been dispatched to the area to monitor the Chinese operations, he added.

He stressed that the shoal was just 60 nautical miles from the western Philippine island of Palawan, well within the country's 200-nautical-mile exclusive economic zone, as recognised by international law.

Foreign Department spokesman Raul Hernandez said in a statement, "we need to find out what really happened with the Chinese frigate in our territory".

He reiterated that the Philippines would provide assistance to move the ship if China requested it.

The Chinese government earlier confirmed that the ship was on "routine patrol" when it became stranded near Half Moon Shoal in the Spratly Islands on Wednesday evening.

The stranding highlights the territorial conflicts between the two countries which marred the ASEAN Regional Forum in Cambodia this week.

At the forum, the Philippines' foreign minister denounced Chinese "duplicity" and "intimidation" in the South China Sea and conflicting positions on the issue prevented the Association of Southeast Asian Nations from issuing its customary joint statement.

The Philippines and China have been in a standoff since Chinese ships blocked the Philippine navy from arresting Chinese fishermen at the disputed Scarborough Shoal in the South China Sea in April.

The Philippines says the shoal is also within its EEZ but China claims the entire South China Sea as its historical territory, even up to the coasts of other Southeast Asian countries. The sea is believed to sit atop vast oil and gas deposits.

In Manila, a group of Filipino-Americans on Saturday called for a boycott of Chinese products and a day of prayer to rally support against China's actions.

- AFP/ck

Re: Type 560 Rans Aground

Philippines is being hypocritical here. Malaysia have the same problems with the Philippines in the Spartly. However, all the incidents are not in the spotlight, mainly, because the Philippines chose to downplay it. You see, Malaysia is not China, so Philippines cannot play the "victim" in the international scene. It is to Philippines' advantage to put the spotlight to incidents involving China while putting a blind eye to incidents involving Malaysia and Indonesia. They even had some incidents with the Vietnamese but always kept a lid on it.

Yes, I agree with you that Taiwan( Republic of China) had the first and longest claim to the islands. By virtue of the international community recognizing that there is only one China, then mainland China should assume as the legal claimant. All other countries started claiming the islands much later. During the fall of Saigon, Vietnam aggressively occupied some of the Spratly which provoked Philippines to destroy Chinese and Vietnamese survey markers and occupy a few of the island. Malaysia followed suit in the early 80's and have destroyed and replaced a lot of Filipino and Vietnamese markers. Brunei lay her claims in the 2000's.

How do the countries involved handle this? Malaysia chose a diplomatic/ win win approach. The Philippines as usual, being a Westerner trapped in an Asian body, chose the confrontational/ zero sum gain approach. While the Philippines is still in the mist of a brawl, Malaysia is already sharing the revenues of joint oil ventures with China. Oil revenues already represent 40% of Malaysian government's source of fund. Filipinos knows that their democracy is dysfunctional and their politicians are mostly predatory and corrupt, but yet subscribe to their unrealistic approach. I really wonder what will the Philippines get once all the oil are gone.

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Very good point! The Philippines likes to portray the issue as the Philippines vs. the PRC, instead of the Philippines vs. the PRC vs. ROC vs. Vietnam vs. Malaysia vs. Brunei. Why doesn't Manila get upset about the dozens of Vietnamese outposts on islands and reefs in the Spratly Islands? Why doesn't Manila while about Taiwan sending marines to guard its bases, which happens to be on the largest of the Spratly Islands, Itu Aba.

Taiwan claims all the islands with the exact same rationale as the PRC! In fact it was the KMT which first published the nine dotted-line map in the 1940s before they fled to Taiwan. The Philippines doesn't bring that fact up, or Malaysia or Vietnam or Brunei's claims because that would undermine the narrative they are presenting of China against the Philippines.

Re: Type 560 Rans Aground

ManilaBoy45 said:

This topic is about the PLAN modern frigate 560 that recently grounded about 60 nautiical miles off the west coast of Palawan province , the incident above took place almost 2 decades ago involving a WW2 vintage vessel and should not be compared to this incident and please refrain from going Off-Topic or this thread might end up being close too ...

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How is it off topic? We have some folks speculating if this was an intentional grounding to essentially create an instant base. I'm pretty sure all of us don't just read and post on this site and not gather info from various other sites. This idea has been mentioned many times elsewhere so the notion isn't some secret. I'm merely pointing out the tactic in itself is not new and has been carried out by a fellow rival in the SCS area if it turns out to be true that the 560 is being used in such a manner.

Please tell me what is "on topic" then? It's an old frigate, it's grounded on a reef 60 miles off Palawan in international waters. It was built in the earlier half of the 90s, specifically to patrol SCS. Currently, there are several other Chinese vessels assisting with salvaging. It's armament and specs are well discussed and easily found online. What is left to discuss on this thread if anything else is "off topic"? I'm still asking you why you felt the need to create a separate thread for this incident when it fits better under the ASEAN news thread? Infact, you did post in there in as well, so shouldn't you have this merge into it?