Type 076 LHD/LHA discussion

asif iqbal

asif iqbal

Lieutenant General
ACuriousPLAFan said:
Yes.

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and that certainly looks like a long well deck but the question is does it have a ramp like the Type 075 LHD

because my understanding is the standard configuration for the Type 075 LHD is 2 x LCAC

with plenty of rotary wing on the Type 075 LHD while the Type 071 LPD can take 4 x Type 726 LCAC

if Type 076 can also take 4 x LCAC it would be bigger than loading capacity than the Type 075 LHD

which means this

Type 071 LPD ground component + limited air component
Type 075 LHD limited ground + air component
Type 076 LHA ground + air component + air cover using UCAVs

which means the LPD + LHD fleet operate for amphibious operations while the LHA gives the cover

which would free up a full blown Carrier Strike using CV16, CV17 and CV18 which can concentrate on Blue Water operations
 
TK3600

TK3600

Major
Registered Member
Is there a large UCAV carrier before this? No. 076 is a new type of ship never before seen. It would be useless to compare it to any existing class of ship. Perhaps the only one you can compare to is 075, which 076 shares some design elements with. We are not sure if this sharing on purpose, or just out of convenience/economic reasons.

I view emergence of 076 as sort of an analog of emergence early aircraft carrier from 20's and 30's. Back then aircraft carriers are an entirely new concept. Navies were not sure how the design should be optimized, or perhaps it would turn out to be a dead end, so they went through the cautious route. Carriers had armor similar to that of a battlecruiser, carries cruiser caliber heavy guns. Carrying plane is a new concept, so as risk management if planes turned out to be a gimmick, the ship still has sufficient combat value. It may seemed silly in hindsight because large guns take away deck space for plane, but it really was pretty smart. Large warship naturally is efficient at carrying big guns, so making a multi-role ship do not take away from the new plane carrying concept. In the same manner a UCAV carrier requires a deck that is also useful as LHD. Having a well decks for amphibious assault do not exactly interfere with UCAV operation. In the future if it turns out UCAV is a gamechanger, we could minimize the LHD components and make the vessel dedicated to single purpose. Until then, being multi-role is the best idea.
 
K

kentchang

Junior Member
Registered Member
TK3600 said:
Is there a large UCAV carrier before this? No. 076 is a new type of ship never before seen. It would be useless to compare it to any existing class of ship. Perhaps the only one you can compare to is 075, which 076 shares some design elements with. We are not sure if this sharing on purpose, or just out of convenience/economic reasons.

I view emergence of 076 as sort of an analog of emergence early aircraft carrier from 20's and 30's. Back then aircraft carriers are an entirely new concept. Navies were not sure how the design should be optimized, or perhaps it would turn out to be a dead end, so they went through the cautious route. Carriers had armor similar to that of a battlecruiser, carries cruiser caliber heavy guns. Carrying plane is a new concept, so as risk management if planes turned out to be a gimmick, the ship still has sufficient combat value. It may seemed silly in hindsight because large guns take away deck space for plane, but it really was pretty smart. Large warship naturally is efficient at carrying big guns, so making a multi-role ship do not take away from the new plane carrying concept. In the same manner a UCAV carrier requires a deck that is also useful as LHD. Having a well decks for amphibious assault do not exactly interfere with UCAV operation. In the future if it turns out UCAV is a gamechanger, we could minimize the LHD components and make the vessel dedicated to single purpose. Until then, being multi-role is the best idea.
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I see the 076 best function as the flag/command ship (LCC, not LHA) of an amphibious task group (i.e. a 21st Century Blue Ridge). As such, the drones' primary mission is ISR then fire support. Drones can both loiter longer, shorten the transit time, and allow the 076 to stay much further away from the combat zone. Admittedly I cannot explain how the well deck can be practically used IF a well deck is what we are seeing. Perhaps it is mostly hanger space as the drones will necessarily be large to support persistent ISR or launch stand-off range munitions for first strikes or breakouts.
 
TK3600

TK3600

Major
Registered Member
kentchang said:
I see the 076 best function as the flag/command ship (LCC, not LHA) of an amphibious task group (i.e. a 21st Century Blue Ridge). As such, the drones' primary mission is ISR then fire support. Drones can both loiter longer, shorten the transit time, and allow the 076 to stay much further away from the combat zone. Admittedly I cannot explain how the well deck can be practically used IF a well deck is what we are seeing. Perhaps it is mostly hanger space as the drones will necessarily be large to support persistent ISR or launch stand-off range munitions for first strikes or breakouts.
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My point is we should view well deck and the UCAV as separate packages that are not necessarily fully synergistic (but it could). They could be 2 separate functions that do not interfere each other, yet compatible in one ship efficiently. It does not have to always perform both functions at same time. Worst case if the UCAV don't work out that well, China does need LHD, so not much of a value was lost.
 
A

Andy1974

Senior Member
Registered Member
BoraTas said:
If something is unmanned or not has little bearing with if it is an EV or not. AFVs aren't going EV anytime soon. I also don't see why the 075 would have problems with launching UGVs, or why UGVs would require special design choices.
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I think it’s the other way around.

The 075 has to accommodate manned ICE vehicles and their human crew for an entire journey.

The 076, if it is the case, may not have to worry about crew at all, making it simpler and cheaper and much more efficient. Vehicles can be parked/stored without limitations of crew access.

The whole PLAN seems to be going electric to me, amphibious electric vehicles are here already, my Tesla floats.
 
BoraTas

BoraTas

Captain
Registered Member
Andy1974 said:
I think it’s the other way around.

The 075 has to accommodate manned ICE vehicles and their human crew for an entire journey.

The 076, if it is the case, may not have to worry about crew at all, making it simpler and cheaper and much more efficient. Vehicles can be parked/stored without limitations of crew access.

The whole PLAN seems to be going electric to me, amphibious electric vehicles are here already, my Tesla floats.
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In a LHD, or even a LHD-embarked landing force, vehicle drivers make a small portion of the population. if you could do away with the need for them, it wouldn't change things much.
The second and third sentences need substantial clarifications from you. Because it seems like you are trying to convey that they could get rid of the infantry (you know, most of those vehicles are personnel carriers) and that there are signs for PLAN replacing its ZBD-05s with full-electric amphibious APCs. These two ideas have nothing to do with the real world. I read your sentences again and again to check if I was misreading because they are outlandish. That crew access argument doesn't make sense either. Amphibious vessels don't store vehicles sparsely.

well deck.jpg
 
J

jvodan

Junior Member
Registered Member
TK3600 said:
My point is we should view well deck and the UCAV as separate packages that are not necessarily fully synergistic (but it could). They could be 2 separate functions that do not interfere each other, yet compatible in one ship efficiently. It does not have to always perform both functions at same time. Worst case if the UCAV don't work out that well, China does need LHD, so not much of a value was lost.
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Or the 76 might be a drone ship specialist,
UAVs from the top Deck and USV (robot boats) from the well deck.
Both could attack a beach head as the first wave as part of a clearing operation. In the process they would soak up missiles from the defensive positions, identifying both S2S and S2A missile launchers in the process, manned assets stationed further out (ships and planes) could then launch PGMs to neutralise anything that attacked the first wave.
 
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