Type 076 LHD/LHA discussion

lcloo

lcloo

Captain
There has been a lot of speculations on the catapult length, J35 and number of lifts etc. I foresee a lot of disappointment the day the final piece of the modules is welded onto type 076.

Very few people ask why China need this type of ship, where are they going to deploy them, what type of war is China expected during the entire service life of this ship and how are they going to use it, and who are they expected to deploy type 076 against?

Do China envision deploying type 076 like USS America do in far away intervention, with F-35B as their principal aircraft? I think not, due to non-intervention policy of China, and no STOVL J35 development plan is known. And also the real danger of injuries to spines of pilots on take off and landing from the relatively short catapults and landing strip (if there is any).

Will China deploy type 076 like HMS Invinsible as a large ASW ship? China has more than 100 DDG and FFG capable of ASW unlike the miserable few that Royal Navy commanded, so very unlikely.

I only see two scenarios in next 2 decades, i.e. SCS and AR of Taiwan.
 
T

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
GiantPanda said:
We could rule out the ski-jump ramp but I wouldn't cross out the angled deck until the landing deck is put on. The port side is asymetric -- which could mean supporting structure for a greater overhang than the starboard side.
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Although there is still a layer to be added, I think it has passed where a supposed overhang should be. In other words, there is no overhang to be built. So the top of the ship would look not much different from type 075. Even if eventually the landing strip is marked with an slight angle off the center it isn't really physically angled.

For comparison, I think 076 has reached the equavlent level of CV-13 marked in red and yellow according to how I see the photo in post #775. From the top view, 076 is pretty much like 075, so there is no overhang like CV-13 (marked in yellow). In a CV, if one has a real angled deck on one side, one must put the bridge on overhang on the other side to balance the weight, instead of like a LHA/LHD having a boxy shape (blue lines go up to deck).

1716228656724.png
 
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BoraTas

BoraTas

Captain
Registered Member
lcloo said:
There has been a lot of speculations on the catapult length, J35 and number of lifts etc. I foresee a lot of disappointment the day the final piece of the modules is welded onto type 076.

Very few people ask why China need this type of ship, where are they going to deploy them, what type of war is China expected during the entire service life of this ship and how are they going to use it, and who are they expected to deploy type 076 against?

Do China envision deploying type 076 like USS America do in far away intervention, with F-35B as their principal aircraft? I think not, due to non-intervention policy of China, and no STOVL J35 development plan is known. And also the real danger of injuries to spines of pilots on take off and landing from the relatively short catapults and landing strip (if there is any).

Will China deploy type 076 like HMS Invinsible as a large ASW ship? China has more than 100 DDG and FFG capable of ASW unlike the miserable few that Royal Navy commanded, so very unlikely.

I only see two scenarios in next 2 decades, i.e. SCS and AR of Taiwan.
Click to expand...
The rumors about the 076 being gas turbine propelled makes me think. Beyond its obvious use as a LHD, there might be visions about attaching it to CSGs for... anything, really. With even short catapults, the vessel will be very flexible in terms of what it can launch. I bet you could launch a fighter jet-sized tanker from it. The catapult means the thing wouldn't need much STOL trickery. I can think of many possibilities. High-endurance drones for ASW, communication relays, flying wing ISR UAVs, etc...

Other than that, there is a group of islands near to China that China might need to consider. The Japanese ECS islands. Japan is strongly signalling that it will participate in a US campaign China, and the USMC's new structure apparently envision the utilization of the said islands. A lot these islands are significantly further away than Taiwan. 1000 km isn't a problem for fighters but it is a problem from MALE-type drones. They are slow and vulnerable platforms, and most of them lack SATCOM.
 
vincent

vincent

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
BoraTas said:
Other than that, there is a group of islands near to China that China might need to consider. The Japanese ECS islands. Japan is strongly signalling that it will participate in a US campaign China, and the USMC's new structure apparently envision the utilization of the said islands. A lot these islands are significantly further away than Taiwan. 1000 km isn't a problem for fighters but it is a problem from MALE-type drones. They are slow and vulnerable platforms, and most of them lack SATCOM.
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There is a simple solution to US Marine’s island hopping strategy: mine all islands.
 
lcloo

lcloo

Captain
One weapon which I wish will be installed on type 076 and type 075 is laser weapon system. Even if the ship is positioned at 100km away from shore, it is still within strike range of suicide drones. And swarm drones attacks might be used by island defenders against a 40,000 to 50,000 tons fat juicy target out at sea.

If a swarm drone formation has more than one hundred drones, it will deplete all air defense missiles of type 076 and its escorts. CIWS-11 may be effective but its ready to fire munition storage box has limited number of bullets. Laser has no munition quantity limitation and can be kept on firing as long as its mechanism and electricity supply keep on working.
 
Y

ying1978

New Member
lcloo said:
There has been a lot of speculations on the catapult length, J35 and number of lifts etc. I foresee a lot of disappointment the day the final piece of the modules is welded onto type 076.

Very few people ask why China need this type of ship, where are they going to deploy them, what type of war is China expected during the entire service life of this ship and how are they going to use it, and who are they expected to deploy type 076 against?

Do China envision deploying type 076 like USS America do in far away intervention, with F-35B as their principal aircraft? I think not, due to non-intervention policy of China, and no STOVL J35 development plan is known. And also the real danger of injuries to spines of pilots on take off and landing from the relatively short catapults and landing strip (if there is any).

Will China deploy type 076 like HMS Invinsible as a large ASW ship? China has more than 100 DDG and FFG capable of ASW unlike the miserable few that Royal Navy commanded, so very unlikely.

I only see two scenarios in next 2 decades, i.e. SCS and AR of Taiwan.
Click to expand...

Of course the ultimate reason for building Amphibious Ships is to prepare for amphibious assault in case of a Taiwan, SCS or Diaoyu Island scenario, or to deter your opponent from making a stupid move by displaying your capabilities.

But the 076 is a relatively large and expensive vessel which will most likely saw most if not all of her service life conducting peace time training. It will be a waste if we just let her sitting idle in her home port waiting for the next exercise like the old 072 LSTs. That’s why I think it is important to incorporate the capabilities for operating light manned fighters like the JL-10s or even J-35s for conducting interception and show-the-flag missions during peace time and act as a back-up landing spot for carrier fighters during war.
 
Gloire_bb

Gloire_bb

Captain
Registered Member
vincent said:
There is a simple solution to US Marine’s island hopping strategy: mine all islands.
Click to expand...
All hundreds of thousands of them in 1st chain, especially when they aren't available to mining due to bein sovereign/hostile?
Also, a minefield not covered with firefield is just thrown away mines. After a couple of unlucky learning events, it won't even delay the attacker.
Most ww2 island assaults after Solomon campaign were against heavily mined positions.
 
N

no_name

Colonel
We've seen heavy use of drones by the PLA land forces. Part of the 076's drone complements may be simply to bring along that capability to it's carried amphibious landing forces. Afterall kind of unrealistic to send slow drones from mainland to a expedition landing force that's potentially thousand's of kms away. And carriers might be occupied with other more important tasks.
 
A

Andy1974

Senior Member
Registered Member
no_name said:
We've seen heavy use of drones by the PLA land forces. Part of the 076's drone complements may be simply to bring along that capability to it's carried amphibious landing forces. Afterall kind of unrealistic to send slow drones from mainland to an expedition landing force that's potentially thousand's of kms away. And carriers might be occupied with other more important tasks.
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This seems pretty likely to me, as UGVs get bigger and smarter and intelligent (e.g. with on board AI chips) they might prefer to carry them on a 076 which may be designed for them rather than a 075 which is designed for regular army vehicles.

For example, maybe the parking spots have chargers.

I am hoping that this will be the case, and that it can reduce significantly the number of people on board a 076 because this would mean affordability.

If they so desired, China has more than enough companies producing UAVs, UGVs, USVs and even UUVs and which could fill a 076 to the brim. China also has the computing, AI and networks to fully utilize them and in the very near future the whole collection could be a swarm.
 
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