Type 076 LHD/LHA discussion

kwaigonegin

Colonel
This is difficult to determine. Launching rockets and manufacturing fighter jets are not prerequisites for completing the ejection device. If it is done at all costs, it may be possible. At least from now on, no country has made similar technical reserves.
Let’s go back to 076. This Leviathan actually feels like a compromise product to me: it is probably built to civilian standards, low-cost but multi-purpose. This is my inspiration for the 6-door close range defense system.
An LHA or LHD is by definition a 'compromised' product since it's trying to be many ships in one however PLAN has deemed that they are now strong enough to have such assets which complements their growing expeditionary force.
This is a capability afforded to only a very select few navies of the world.
It is also by nature an offensive weapons systems designed specifically for bringing the fight to someone's doorstep.
 

Heliox

Junior Member
Registered Member
China ... does not intend to use its amphibious and naval forces as "police patrols" in foreign seas like the US Marines do, as many on this forum and in more Western-leaning circles think they will.

The 47th Escort Task Group just departed to patrol the Gulf of Aden. 6,500km away from Chinese shores.

This is a 11+ year unbroken string of anti-piracy patrols, each approx. 3 months in duration, since 2009.

"Does not intend" is not the same as "Does not need".

Carrying a drone and being able to launch it would be useful to increase loitering time over a target beach. If the target is Taiwan or Okinawa, or an island in the South China Sea, the drone can cut out the time it would take to cruise to the target beach, but when fuel runs low can simply fly back to the mainland or an SCS outpost. Increased loiter time would be beneficial in a landing operation.

A heavy ISR drone that requires a cat launch will typically be a MALE UAV. These platforms have 30+ hours endurance and are strategic/theatre level assets. Within the scope of Taiwan (300km) you are proposing complicating an already complicated Amphib platform to save 1 hour of transit (5% of endurance). All the while, adding a micro amount of ISR capability to a theatre that is well covered and saturated by land-based air.

Okinawa?! Why are we even entertaining the idea of a Okinawa landing? Yes, I'm aware drawer plans probably exist for a landing on Okinawa but within the scale of "probable" (Taiwan) to "hell freezes over" (Okinawa or any Japanese territory), isn't it a bit of a reach to ascribe platform design and procurement to a a situation that has a powerball level of probability?

[aside: Yes, in a Taiwan AR, a shooting war might also occur between Japan and China - because US bases being used. But to actually land troops on Japanese soil is magnitudes of escalation above just targeting US bases and infrastructure supporting them. Yes, JSDF forces might be further drawn in but again, there are differing levels of participation, escalation and responses - and landing troops on Japanese territory is quite high up there.]

If anything, you are more likely to see the EMCAT on the Type 76 earning their keep providing ISR in remote places like Gulf of Aden or C3I for HADR ops in the Greater Pacific and even further. ie. The design could be more of a peace time "need" than a war time "need".

[Edit to add]
A CATOBAR LHA brings nothing to the table within the scope of any AMPHIBOPS within the 1IC as this area is very well covered by Land Air. Not unless PLAN/PLAGF is entertaining the thought of integrated TACAIR ala something similar to a USMC MEU.
 
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MC530

New Member
Registered Member
An LHA or LHD is by definition a 'compromised' product since it's trying to be many ships in one however PLAN has deemed that they are now strong enough to have such assets which complements their growing expeditionary force.
This is a capability afforded to only a very select few navies of the world.
It is also by nature an offensive weapons systems designed specifically for bringing the fight to someone's doorstep.
Multi-purpose is a compromise, but the compromise with price is another matter. The civilian standard comparison I am talking about is the American grade and the Northwest Wind grade.
076 shows that China hopes to use a low-cost method to demonstrate its capabilities on the other side of the ocean. But in terms of strength, the standard for "strong enough" should be to ask "Where is our nearest aircraft carrier?" at any time.
 

vincent

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
Multi-purpose is a compromise, but the compromise with price is another matter. The civilian standard comparison I am talking about is the American grade and the Northwest Wind grade.
076 shows that China hopes to use a low-cost method to demonstrate its capabilities on the other side of the ocean. But in terms of strength, the standard for "strong enough" should be to ask "Where is our nearest aircraft carrier?" at any time.
You know 076 is built to civilian standards because…?
 
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Biscuits

Colonel
Registered Member
Multi-purpose is a compromise, but the compromise with price is another matter. The civilian standard comparison I am talking about is the American grade and the Northwest Wind grade.
076 shows that China hopes to use a low-cost method to demonstrate its capabilities on the other side of the ocean. But in terms of strength, the standard for "strong enough" should be to ask "Where is our nearest aircraft carrier?" at any time.
You have confused it with CSSC Discovery, that one is the small flat deck for para-civilian use while 076 is a quite massive LHD, even larger than the America LHD and all European CVs besides the QE class.
 

HardBall

New Member
Registered Member
Multi-purpose is a compromise, but the compromise with price is another matter. The civilian standard comparison I am talking about is the American grade and the Northwest Wind grade.
076 shows that China hopes to use a low-cost method to demonstrate its capabilities on the other side of the ocean. But in terms of strength, the standard for "strong enough" should be to ask "Where is our nearest aircraft carrier?" at any time.

Like others have said, you should probably familiarize yourself with naval hulls and naval construction methods before posting this.

That quibble aside, a general purpose CV is well suited for all manners of power projection and posturing / deterrence on the high seas. But that also leaves room for other classes of ships that are optimized for narrower mission sets close to the continental shelf. They are in certain situations, just as effective, if not more effective for those specific geographic and operational circumstances.
 

lcloo

Captain
I was quite confused as I couldn't get result with online search, so I asked Microsoft CoPilot:-

"What is American grade and the Northwest Wind grade in Landing ship construction?"

And it replied:-
"In landing ship construction, the American grade typically refers to the American Bureau of Shipping (ABS) standards. These standards ensure that ships are built to high safety and performance criteria.

The Northwest Wind grade isn't a standard term in ship construction. It might be a misunderstanding or a specific term used in a particular context. Could you provide more details or clarify what you mean by "Northwest Wind grade"? I'd love to help!"
 

ismellcopium

Junior Member
Registered Member
I was quite confused as I couldn't get result with online search, so I asked Microsoft CoPilot:-

"What is American grade and the Northwest Wind grade in Landing ship construction?"

And it replied:-
"In landing ship construction, the American grade typically refers to the American Bureau of Shipping (ABS) standards. These standards ensure that ships are built to high safety and performance criteria.

The Northwest Wind grade isn't a standard term in ship construction. It might be a misunderstanding or a specific term used in a particular context. Could you provide more details or clarify what you mean by "Northwest Wind grade"? I'd love to help!"
Lmao. I'm pretty sure he's typing in Chinese then translating to English? But I'm not sure what kind of atrocious translator he's using, even Google translates "西北风级“ to Mistral.
 

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
Lmao. I'm pretty sure he's typing in Chinese then translating to English? But I'm not sure what kind of atrocious translator he's using, even Google translates "西北风级“ to Mistral.
I am "facinated" that a guy who isn't able to read and write English is so delusional to the myth of the America.

BTW, he may not be Chinese at all but marked his profile as from China. We have seen many examples (in this forum) of somebody pretending from some places just to stir up controverses and hatrade. The reason that I suspect it is that all three popular Chinese web translators used "scale" instead of "grade" when translating "美国级" and “西北风级”, that made me think that he is NOT translating from Chinese or not using a Chinese machine translator.
 

Kejora

Junior Member
Registered Member
The size of the parking area painted in white boxes indicates the main type of aircraft, most likely UCAV like GJ-11, seem a bit too small for manned fighter jets. Note that GJ-11 mockups were spotted on Changxing island shipyard area owned by Hudong.

The aircraft lifts are large enough for Z8 helicopters. Its size is similar to that on Type 075.

Lack of arresting cable gear may indicate manned fixed wing jets were not considered when the ship was designed and built. If there is any arrestor cable to be installed later during the current fitting out, it may not be strong enough to stop a J35 size aircraft. We can take the arrestor cable gear on Fujian for reference.

I consider this a LHA Drone ship whose primary mission is massive drone support for landing operation. Then of course its transport and attack helicopters, LCAC and other amphibious capabilities should not be overlooked.View attachment 142168
1000256496.jpg

My theory might be correct
Its possible that they might use the middle of the deck for recovery.
Blue: for launching aircraft
Red: for landing and recovery
Yellow: for island and parking aircraft/helicopter
View attachment 130317
1000256497.jpg
 
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