Type 076 LHD/LHA discussion

HardBall

New Member
Registered Member
only thing I don't get is why Type 076 LHA does not have a angled deck when it does have cats and traps

its not about strategy or doctrine but rather optimisation of a flat deck to improve launch and recovery for fixed wings aircraft or UCAVS

for simultaneous launch and recovery angled deck is a must

its like having a double barrel shot gun but loading only one bullet

Only if the planned operational tempo of the air wing needs to be at a certain level.

For the most part, high tempo of operation is normally require only if the primary mission of the ship are things like large anti-surface strike packages, offensive counter air, penetrating ground strike, etc.

Those are not generally the type of mission profiles that PLA probably has in mind for 076. For today, that's actually true of all amphibious warships any where in the world, actually.
 

CannedFish

New Member
Registered Member
only thing I don't get is why Type 076 LHA does not have a angled deck when it does have cats and traps

its not about strategy or doctrine but rather optimisation of a flat deck to improve launch and recovery for fixed wings aircraft or UCAVS

for simultaneous launch and recovery angled deck is a must

its like having a double barrel shot gun but loading only one bullet
Neither China nor the US for that matter had conducted any simultaneous launch and recovery for decades.

They just mass launch and mass recover separately now.

The main reasoning for an angled flight deck is to avoid a failing/falling aircraft from hitting the bow of the ship.
 

ismellcopium

Junior Member
Registered Member
How capable sortie generation wise will the 076 be with a single cat? If not used for amphib, is it realistic to operate it as a standalone carrier within a CBG inside the 2IC, with J-35s and GJ-11s? I.e. close enough where it wouldn't be expected to encounter/go toe to toe against US CSGs which are kept further afield by the land based A2AD bubble, but still able to contribute to sea control in the 2IC & be able to adequately engage against other surface formations, subs etc, both offensively and defensively. I think I read on Weibo it's intended to be used as a light carrier if necessary so perhaps they do intend it to be capable of this.
 
Last edited:

HardBall

New Member
Registered Member
How capable sortie generation wise will the 076 be with a single cat? If not used for amphib, is it realistic to operate it as a standalone carrier within a CBG inside the 2IC, with J-35s and GJ-11s? I.e. close enough where it wouldn't be expected to encounter/go toe to toe against US CSGs which are kept further afield by the A2AD bubble but still able to contribute to sea control in the 2IC & be able to adequately engage against other surface formations, subs etc, both offensively and defensively. I think I read on Weibo it's intended to be used as a light carrier if necessary so perhaps they do intend it to be capable of this.

It largely would depend on the specific mission it was asked to carry out.

Having multiple launch positions and a separate recovery runway roughly corresponds to ability: to launch large packages of aircraft for some coordinated set of missions in the same timeframe; and to perform continuous recovery as needed when returning package run low on fuel. There isn't really need to be such capability in carrier ops, for the most part except large offensive ops to targets that are generally far away and/or well guarded by defensive layers.

If you just want to do low intensity sea control, run cap, or do asw missions, generally you wouldn't need that. If you actually want to send packages of attack planes to penetrate AD of an opposiing CSG, then that would generally be required. But for a ship that send at most a couple dozen in a package, usually much less, it's kind of a suicide mission anyways, if not backed up by numerous other land based missiles and aircraft and subs.

Another way to look at it, if a flattop has a launch position outside the landing strip, that carrier is usually capable of performing the long range strike / offense role (CVA in old USN parlance). In that case, you are able to continuously do recovery op, and at the same time periodically launch other necessary sorties such as CAP, AWACs, ASW, etc. You certainly would not need that for the typical types of helo missions in amphibious assault or CIS (whose aircraft are generally designed for loiter anyways).
 

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
It largely would depend on the specific mission it was asked to carry out.

Having multiple launch positions and a separate recovery runway roughly corresponds to ability: to launch large packages of aircraft for some coordinated set of missions in the same timeframe; and to perform continuous recovery as needed when returning package run low on fuel. There isn't really need to be such capability in carrier ops, for the most part except large offensive ops to targets that are generally far away and/or well guarded by defensive layers.

If you just want to do low intensity sea control, run cap, or do asw missions, generally you wouldn't need that. If you actually want to send packages of attack planes to penetrate AD of an opposiing CSG, then that would generally be required. But for a ship that send at most a couple dozen in a package, usually much less, it's kind of a suicide mission anyways, if not backed up by numerous other land based missiles and aircraft and subs.

Another way to look at it, if a flattop has a launch position outside the landing strip, that carrier is usually capable of performing the long range strike / offense role (CVA in old USN parlance). In that case, you are able to continuously do recovery op, and at the same time periodically launch other necessary sorties such as CAP, AWACs, ASW, etc. You certainly would not need that for the typical types of helo missions in amphibious assault or CIS (whose aircraft are generally designed for loiter anyways).
If there is a role for 076 in sea control, what are your thoughts on the well deck?

Could it be used for attack USVs, bouys, etc. Assets for sea control rather than for amphibious assault?

It seems like if the well deck had a flexible payload, you could configure the 076 for both sea control and amphibious assault depending on situation.
 

kwaigonegin

Colonel
Neither China nor the US for that matter had conducted any simultaneous launch and recovery for decades.

They just mass launch and mass recover separately now.

The main reasoning for an angled flight deck is to avoid a failing/falling aircraft from hitting the bow of the ship.
Not bow but the island. And of course other parked aircraft. Studies conducted decades ago by the US. shows that most pilots have a tendency to jerk right on the stick so angle deck mitigated that. It also has other very obvious advantages.
 

dingyibvs

Senior Member
only thing I don't get is why Type 076 LHA does not have a angled deck when it does have cats and traps

its not about strategy or doctrine but rather optimisation of a flat deck to improve launch and recovery for fixed wings aircraft or UCAVS

for simultaneous launch and recovery angled deck is a must

its like having a double barrel shot gun but loading only one bullet
That's what I'm wondering as well. I mean, what's the downside to having an angled deck?
 

HardBall

New Member
Registered Member
If there is a role for 076 in sea control, what are your thoughts on the well deck?

Could it be used for attack USVs, bouys, etc. Assets for sea control rather than for amphibious assault?

It seems like if the well deck had a flexible payload, you could configure the 076 for both sea control and amphibious assault depending on situation.

It should mostly suffice for that role in low to medium intensity situations.

If memory serves, sea control was first operationalized on USS Guam, you can find some notes here:
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Seems like it would need to have a AEWAC/HALE + a rescue helo on station, and a couple fighter sections doing CAP. There would probably need to be a couple elements of interceptors ready on deck in case there is a the early warning radar contact. Don't see any reason why it shouldn't be able to do so, and intercept small formations of bombers / attack aircraft, as long as it is capable of J-35s and a few HALE drones.

And of course, ASW capability should be organic part of that airwing in that type of mission. Either ASW helo and / or drones could be used in that role. And escorts should also have a healthy complement of ASW helos.

It wouldn't do very well in a hot zone though, if there are potentially large, multi-squadron formations of opposition planes. So it might need to be sufficiently close to ground based assets that it can call on for back up in those cases. Well deck, and other docking facilities mainly take away from hanger space and aviation fuel / weapons store, should not be that much of an issue for small scale sea control mission.
 

MC530

New Member
Registered Member
Huh? The French have had cats for decades!
An American cat:
The Charles de Gaulle is only equipped with two C-13-3 steam catapults. This catapult is a derivative of the C-13 catapult equipped on the US super aircraft carrier. It can eject a fighter aircraft every 30 seconds, but to accommodate the specifications of the Charles de Gaulle, Reduced catapult length to 75 meters.
From the foreseeable future, there will only be American cats and Chinese cats in the world, and no country has any plans for redevelopment.
 
Top