Type 076 LHD/LHA discussion

A satellite image that shows the size difference between Type 076 and 075.

aubzman said:

The Italians have built the closest analogy to the Type 76 with their LHD Trieste

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

which may even have been the inspiration for the Type 76 given how the Italian ship began building in 2018, well before the Type 76. These dates show just how quickly the Chinese can build warships these days.

Click to expand...

Tpe 076 was inspired by type 075, or itreation of type 075. And type 075's design work started in 2011, .meaning the project evauluation and approval was before 2010. While Trieste project was planned in 2014.

And there is big difference beween type 076 and Trieste. Type 076 is an ietration of type 075 while Treste's top deck looks like a scale down British aircraft carrier Queen E with its ski ramp.

lcloo said:

Tpe 076 was inspired by type 075, or itreation of type 075. And type 075's design work started in 2011, .meaning the project evauluation and approval was before 2010. While Trieste project was planned in 2014.

And there is big difference beween type 076 and Trieste. Type 076 is an ietration of type 075 while Treste's top deck looks like a scale down British aircraft carrier Queen E with its ski ramp.

Click to expand...

I do not see a big difference between the Trieste but would agree there does not need to be any direct connection between the two, just as in Nature, similar solutions evolve when similar needs arise. The Italians may even decide to field drones from the Trieste just as the Chinese seem likely to do from the Type 76 and the Turks plan to do from their LHD.

When you have a catapult you don't need a ski jump and as far as I know only the US has that tech in the West

Are arrestor cables usually installed that early in sea trials? The ship got launched, arrestor cables will probably be tested in later sea trials but current test will be sea worthiness so not having them present right now doesn't mean it wont exist later.

Blitzo said:

Doubtful -- the twin island configuration is not anything exotic from a naval architecture point of view, and is preceded by the QE class as well, if one wants to look at ships starting construction that had a a dual island configuration.

I would argue that if anything, dual island configurations are no longer particularly exotic, but 076's defining features of EM catapult and arresting gear most certainly is different from any other amphibious assault ship that came before it.

Click to expand...

I think it isn't as much reference to architecture as it is to a more genuine carrier/LHA hybrid. All other purpose built LHAs(dating back to ww2 days) are landing ships with flat deck and not true combat ships.

It is indeed a common trait between Trieste and Sichuan, and separates them from everybody else.

Gloire_bb said:

I think it isn't as much reference to architecture as it is to a more true carrier/lha hybrid.
Which is indeed common between Trieste and Sichuan, and separates them from everyone else.

Click to expand...

I don't think so -- Trieste has a well deck and a ski jump sure, but its fixed wing complement is still VSTOL aircraft like F-35Bs.

Similarly, the Wasp class and the latest America class ships have a well deck and operate VSTOL aircraft like F-35Bs as well -- the only difference is they don't have a ski jump to get the extra bit of a boost... but I would hardly call that a major difference (it's not like the Wasp/later America class ships are suddenly more of a "true carrier/lha hybrid" just if they had a ski jump added).


076 OTOH is CATOBAR, vastly different to the other LHA/LHDs in the world that feature VSTOL fixed wing and a welldeck, because 076s fixed wing complement will be launched by catapult and recovered by arresting cables.

Blitzo said:

I don't think so -- Trieste has a well deck and a ski jump sure, but its fixed wing complement is still VSTOL aircraft like F-35Bs.

Click to expand...

Carrier can be VSTOL-based, like QE(which in fact can outsortie most supercarriers...if it ever gets full complement of aircraft, which is likely never).
Ultimately border is specialization - weapon handling facilities, lifts, aircraft maintenance etc, which give a huge difference in sortie generation.

Blitzo said:

076 OTOH is CATOBAR, vastly different to the other LHA/LHDs in the world that feature VSTOL fixed wing and a welldeck, because 076s fixed wing complement will be launched by catapult and recovered by arresting cables.

Click to expand...

I personally think it's about available aircraft.
Italy has access to F-35B but not to a sensible CATOBAR ecosystem (supercarrier one doesn't count, french one counts neither, competor).

China designs CATOBAR ecosystem from scratch and adds useful pieces at its will, but making a STOVL just for that, for now, is a stretch. Addingboff the shelf catapults and traps to several large ships is simply cheaper than a large scale development of new aircraft, plus produces further capabilities.

Gloire_bb said:

Carrier can be VSTOL-based, like QE(which in fact can outsortie most supercarriers...if it ever gets full complement of aircraft, which is likely never).
Ultimately border is specialization - weapon handling facilities, lifts, aircraft maintenance etc, which give a huge difference in sortie generation.

I personally think it's about available aircraft.
Italy has access to F-35B but not to a sensible CATOBAR ecosystem (supercarrier one doesn't count, french one counts neither, competor).

China designs CATOBAR ecosystem from scratch and adds useful pieces at its will, but making a STOVL just for that, for now, is a stretch. Addingboff the shelf catapults and traps to several large ships is simply cheaper than a large scale development of new aircraft, plus produces further capabilities.

Click to expand...

Let's put it this way. If the Wasp and later America class, are not considered to be "true carrier/lha hybrids" then the Trieste should not be considered so either. Either way, they are all in the same category.

However 076 remains different from them due to possessing a catapult and arresting gear for launching regular CATOBAR compatible fixed wing aircraft.

If you want to use weapons handling facilities, lifts, and aircraft maintenance facilities as a measuring stick for differentiating them, I am okay with that, but the onus is on you to provide those data sets for the respective ship types and to justify where the quantitative difference is between what separates a "true carrier/lha hybrid" from just a regular lha.


Alternatively, you can simply agree with me and acknowledge that VSTOL LHA/Ds like Wasp/America/Trieste are very different to CATOBAR LHA/Ds like 076 and thus 076 and Trieste should not be compared with one another.



QE class is not relevant to this discussion given it doesn't have a well deck.

aubzman said:

I do not see a big difference between the Trieste but would agree there does not need to be any direct connection between the two, just as in Nature, similar solutions evolve when similar needs arise. The Italians may even decide to field drones from the Trieste just as the Chinese seem likely to do from the Type 76 and the Turks plan to do from their LHD.

When you have a catapult you don't need a ski jump and as far as I know only the US has that tech in the West

Click to expand...

Huh? The French have had cats for decades!

only thing I don't get is why Type 076 LHA does not have a angled deck when it does have cats and traps

its not about strategy or doctrine but rather optimisation of a flat deck to improve launch and recovery for fixed wings aircraft or UCAVS

for simultaneous launch and recovery angled deck is a must

its like having a double barrel shot gun but loading only one bullet