Type 022 Missile Boat
- Thread starter DPRKPTboat
- Start date
Re: Missiles for 2208 catamaran FAC
I think it will be yj-83. I assume that the PLAN wants to save money and keep production in-country. Why would they make a whole new missle when they have one right there. Plus if you have multiple catamarans all firing their missles at a relatively vunerable target ( like a DD or two) you don't need they absolute best technology out there to score a hit.
I think it will be yj-83. I assume that the PLAN wants to save money and keep production in-country. Why would they make a whole new missle when they have one right there. Plus if you have multiple catamarans all firing their missles at a relatively vunerable target ( like a DD or two) you don't need they absolute best technology out there to score a hit.
DPRKPTboat
Junior Member
Re: Missiles for 2208 catamaran FAC
Even though it is the wrong missile, that image does give us some idea of what the interior of the 2208 launchers would look like. Now it all seems to make sense. Those big launchers could fit 4 YJ-83s, so the boat would be carrying a total of 8 missiles. That would suppourt my theory that this thing is intended to deliver a rapid knockout punch and then retreat quickly. Imagine a U.S. CBG cruising along slowly through the Taiwan straight. It may contains destoryers and Cruisers protecting the Carrier. Then suddenly a small flotilla of 2208s, undected by the group's radars, speeds towards the group, launches a volley of YJ-83 missiles, and then retreats rapidly at high speed before the enemy can react. By the time the missiles have hit, the catamarans are well out of range, leaving several ships sinking or badly damaged, which leaves the carrier (YJ-8s would not sink an American aircraft carrier) as a sitting duck for air or sub attack. It would be like naval guerilla tactics - hit and run. And it could prove a nightmare for any navy that opposes the PLAN.
vincelee said:
Even though it is the wrong missile, that image does give us some idea of what the interior of the 2208 launchers would look like. Now it all seems to make sense. Those big launchers could fit 4 YJ-83s, so the boat would be carrying a total of 8 missiles. That would suppourt my theory that this thing is intended to deliver a rapid knockout punch and then retreat quickly. Imagine a U.S. CBG cruising along slowly through the Taiwan straight. It may contains destoryers and Cruisers protecting the Carrier. Then suddenly a small flotilla of 2208s, undected by the group's radars, speeds towards the group, launches a volley of YJ-83 missiles, and then retreats rapidly at high speed before the enemy can react. By the time the missiles have hit, the catamarans are well out of range, leaving several ships sinking or badly damaged, which leaves the carrier (YJ-8s would not sink an American aircraft carrier) as a sitting duck for air or sub attack. It would be like naval guerilla tactics - hit and run. And it could prove a nightmare for any navy that opposes the PLAN.
big toothbrush
New Member
vincelee said:
no. it's yj-62.
DPRKPTboat said:
no buddy, things are not going to be like this.
1 U.S. CBG would not get into chinese land-based planes' range for sure, say nothing of taiwan strait where is only 200km away from china mainlan.
2 22xx can't shoot over-horizon targets without datalinks support. if china can't control sky above battlefield, AWACS and other sensors flatform would be unavailable. then 22xxs have to rely on its own sensors to track ASM, the maximal range is less than 30km. if china can control the sky, then planes with ASMs are much effective than 22xxs.
so FAC like 22xxs are not prepared for advanced enemies, but for some small navies arround china.
DPRKPTboat
Junior Member
Re: Missiles for 2208 catamaran FAC
Who says that the 2208s need aircraft? This thing is cleary built with stealthy features. So it must be designed to sneak up close to its target. As far as U.S. radar is concerned, the catamaran appears no bigger than a seabird on the surface of the water. As for the 2208s sensors having a max range of 30km, we don't know enough about the sensors and weapons onboard this thing to assume what they are capable of. For all we know, the catamaran's sensors could be much more powerful. And since it is a stealth unit (one of few stealth units China posseses) it could easily get within 30km of its target if it needed to. Then all it has to do is feed the coordinates into the missiles guidance computer, launch the missile and make a fast escape. And since it is faster than the ships in a U.S. CBG, they would not be able to catch it. As for the comment that it is not designed for an advanced enemy - well yes, but only if it faces its enemies toe to toe. And that would be a ludecrous tactic against a U.S. CBG. If it uses hit and run tactics, then it is a different story. History has taught us that an indirect, rapid hit and run attack by a weak force is much more devestating than a direct, conventional attack by a strong force. In a head on conventional battle, The PLAN cannot match the U.S. navy: the Chinese commanders know that. That is why they are building the catamarans. I believe that Chinese tactics against the U.S. in the event of war will be, as Mao Zedong said: "Retreat when the enemy attacks, raid when the enemy camps, attack when the enemy tires, pursue when the enemy retreats." That is what the 2208 seems to be designed for. I believe that it is possible to wreak havoc for a U.S. CBG using these tactics; don't forget, battleship fleets were considered invincible, and we believed torpedo boats would not last a minute. But during the seond world war, torpedo boats caused devestation for battleships, using indirect hit and run tactics. I believe the Chinese will do the same thing to Carrier battle groups using with this thing.:china:
big toothbrush said:
Who says that the 2208s need aircraft? This thing is cleary built with stealthy features. So it must be designed to sneak up close to its target. As far as U.S. radar is concerned, the catamaran appears no bigger than a seabird on the surface of the water. As for the 2208s sensors having a max range of 30km, we don't know enough about the sensors and weapons onboard this thing to assume what they are capable of. For all we know, the catamaran's sensors could be much more powerful. And since it is a stealth unit (one of few stealth units China posseses) it could easily get within 30km of its target if it needed to. Then all it has to do is feed the coordinates into the missiles guidance computer, launch the missile and make a fast escape. And since it is faster than the ships in a U.S. CBG, they would not be able to catch it. As for the comment that it is not designed for an advanced enemy - well yes, but only if it faces its enemies toe to toe. And that would be a ludecrous tactic against a U.S. CBG. If it uses hit and run tactics, then it is a different story. History has taught us that an indirect, rapid hit and run attack by a weak force is much more devestating than a direct, conventional attack by a strong force. In a head on conventional battle, The PLAN cannot match the U.S. navy: the Chinese commanders know that. That is why they are building the catamarans. I believe that Chinese tactics against the U.S. in the event of war will be, as Mao Zedong said: "Retreat when the enemy attacks, raid when the enemy camps, attack when the enemy tires, pursue when the enemy retreats." That is what the 2208 seems to be designed for. I believe that it is possible to wreak havoc for a U.S. CBG using these tactics; don't forget, battleship fleets were considered invincible, and we believed torpedo boats would not last a minute. But during the seond world war, torpedo boats caused devestation for battleships, using indirect hit and run tactics. I believe the Chinese will do the same thing to Carrier battle groups using with this thing.:china:
big toothbrush
New Member
Re: Missiles for 2208 catamaran FAC
we don't know 22xx sensors' informations, but we do know those sensors are not fit on a high altitude. the surface of earth is curvilinear while the radar waves go straight. there is big dead angle besides radar's detective area. even much larger combat ships like DDG and FFG which have much more powerful sensors still can't deal with over-horizon targets by themselves. some AWACS or at least copters are needed for targets' informations transfer and missiles' track. nobody can shoot over-horizon targets without air-based sensors and datalinks, 22xx is not exception.
about the RCS of this boat, it won't be more stealthy than a blowhole of SSK. the radar of S-3 can track submarines' blowhole or periscope more than 50km away, what about a much obvious target like FACs? USN CBG also has E-2 AWACS which can detect RCS=5 targets 200km away. no matter how stealthy it is, there is no surface ship that can approach USN CBG within 500km without being detected. once detected, it means destroyed. no matter how fast the FAC is, USN CBG's F-18s are faster, the harpoons carried by them are even faster. before FAC has chance to launch missiles to strike CBG, it has to suffer massive missiles strike from CBG planes.
any tactic only when be based on a certain level's system cooperation, it would be useful. otherwise it's air castle. if hope just use FACs to break CBG's defence, that's not tactic, but suicide.
we don't know 22xx sensors' informations, but we do know those sensors are not fit on a high altitude. the surface of earth is curvilinear while the radar waves go straight. there is big dead angle besides radar's detective area. even much larger combat ships like DDG and FFG which have much more powerful sensors still can't deal with over-horizon targets by themselves. some AWACS or at least copters are needed for targets' informations transfer and missiles' track. nobody can shoot over-horizon targets without air-based sensors and datalinks, 22xx is not exception.
about the RCS of this boat, it won't be more stealthy than a blowhole of SSK. the radar of S-3 can track submarines' blowhole or periscope more than 50km away, what about a much obvious target like FACs? USN CBG also has E-2 AWACS which can detect RCS=5 targets 200km away. no matter how stealthy it is, there is no surface ship that can approach USN CBG within 500km without being detected. once detected, it means destroyed. no matter how fast the FAC is, USN CBG's F-18s are faster, the harpoons carried by them are even faster. before FAC has chance to launch missiles to strike CBG, it has to suffer massive missiles strike from CBG planes.
any tactic only when be based on a certain level's system cooperation, it would be useful. otherwise it's air castle. if hope just use FACs to break CBG's defence, that's not tactic, but suicide.
DPRKPTboat
Junior Member
Re: Missiles for 2208 catamaran FAC
O.K. whatever, the FAC may need aircraft to relay target information, but it doesn't have to be a whole air fleet. You would probably only need one KJ-2000 or Y-8J Skymaster with fighter escort to send target info. And it could do that from a long way away, out of reach from enemy aircraft. Don't forget, the Argentines were able to use their P-2 Neptunes to guide their Super Etendards to our ships during the Falklands war right under our noses, and we never found out about that until the end of the war. I see no reason why the Chinese could not pull this off. And it doesn't take a genius to realise that even a small number of YJ-8s could cause severe damage. And I think this thing is perfectly capable of penetrating the carrier's defences - if the Carrier does launch its aircraft to pursue it, the catamarans could always lure the F-18s towards the main fleet or the Chinese coast so they are in the range of Chinese SAMs or fighters. (Remenber that this is the Taiwan straight, close to the mainland coast, where the 2208 is mostly designed to operate). I'm still convinced that his thing could prove to be a lethal weapon system. I refuse to believe that those CBGs are invinvcible. And everyone knows that the U.S. miltary's achilles heel is surprise or hit and run guerilla attacks. And the 2208 seems to be best suited for those sorts of tactics.
O.K. whatever, the FAC may need aircraft to relay target information, but it doesn't have to be a whole air fleet. You would probably only need one KJ-2000 or Y-8J Skymaster with fighter escort to send target info. And it could do that from a long way away, out of reach from enemy aircraft. Don't forget, the Argentines were able to use their P-2 Neptunes to guide their Super Etendards to our ships during the Falklands war right under our noses, and we never found out about that until the end of the war. I see no reason why the Chinese could not pull this off. And it doesn't take a genius to realise that even a small number of YJ-8s could cause severe damage. And I think this thing is perfectly capable of penetrating the carrier's defences - if the Carrier does launch its aircraft to pursue it, the catamarans could always lure the F-18s towards the main fleet or the Chinese coast so they are in the range of Chinese SAMs or fighters. (Remenber that this is the Taiwan straight, close to the mainland coast, where the 2208 is mostly designed to operate). I'm still convinced that his thing could prove to be a lethal weapon system. I refuse to believe that those CBGs are invinvcible. And everyone knows that the U.S. miltary's achilles heel is surprise or hit and run guerilla attacks. And the 2208 seems to be best suited for those sorts of tactics.
MIGleader
Banned Idiot
Re: Missiles for 2208 catamaran FAC
Big toothbrush, the 2208 facs will most likely travel in packs. They all have an ak-630, which is capable of shooting down an E-2 that is hunting for them. Not to mention that there might be other chinese warships in the region patrolling.
Big toothbrush, the 2208 facs will most likely travel in packs. They all have an ak-630, which is capable of shooting down an E-2 that is hunting for them. Not to mention that there might be other chinese warships in the region patrolling.