Two Chinese Cargo Ships attacked on the Mekong River.. 11 Chinese dead

i.e. said:

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a simple google search turns up about 200 Americans were killed in Mexico btw 2004-2009
that's average 40 a year. before the current round of drug wars.

Where are the green berets rangers deltas going into to mexico?

are you sure now?

facts people, facts!

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You're right, but those people have been killed one, maybe 2 at a time. And many have been criminals (and I would reckon most of them are either dual citizens or spend most of their time in Mexico). If 11 Americans who weren't criminals died in a single incident in Mexico, it would cause something of a stir. Politicians might want to send in Spec Ops like they did in Columbia.

Finn McCool said:

If 11 Americans were killed at once in Mexico, I wouldn't be quite so sure. I think China would only respond in such a way if they wanted to use the occasion as a sort of "stepping-out" for China's international power, announcing that if you mess with Chinese overseas, you will have a problem. I think China's leaders might decide to do such a thing one day, but not today.

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That would only be applicable if it was a state sponsored attack, or the local government appears to be active obstructing the investigation and apprehension of the criminals responsible.

There is a very good reason why the US, the only military superpower on earth, has decided to send in law enforcement instead of the military to deal with South American drug lords - military power is not effective against criminal enterprises, and special forces are especially ineffective as you need boots on the ground policing to root out the problem instead of just blowing sh!t up to make yourself feel better.

Finn McCool said:

You're right, but those people have been killed one, maybe 2 at a time. And many have been criminals (and I would reckon most of them are either dual citizens or spend most of their time in Mexico). If 11 Americans who weren't criminals died in a single incident in Mexico, it would cause something of a stir. Politicians might want to send in Spec Ops like they did in Columbia.

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The number of people killed does not change the nature of the problem. Normally there is a correlation between the number of deaths and the nature of the incident. A crime would typically not generate large numbers of casualties because the perps are not setting out to kill people, if they were setting out specifically to kill as many people as possible, it would be a terrorist attack instead of just a crime.

However, a bank robbery is still a bank robbery whether 2 people were killed or 20, and how you deal with it does not change fundamentally because of the body count.

As for US special forces in Columbia, if memory serves me right, that was a civil war and those troops were trainers and security for a pipeline. Did they actually actively take part in any offensive combat operations?

plawolf, everything you said is right. I'm just saying, never underestimate the ability of American politicians to totally foul up a crisis, particularly when there's a dramatic event perpetrated by foreigners that they can us to justify force. But you're right, the chances of further American involvement in Mexico are (thankfully) low and decreasing.

Just my opinion, would there be any possibility that China asks Thailand for some type of cooperation (military or police) to demolish these criminals?

A little more details.

This attack was horrible..

I know these murderous pirates have long been a problem in Thailand. Seems to me that the Thai government would have cracked down on these murderous thieves long ago. Apparently combating piracy is not a priority of the Thai government.

From what I have read, that Golden Triangle area is absolute "Indian Country"; lawless, from what I understand. What police presence does exist is probably bribed by the criminals (and/or they have second jobs as criminals).

From the BBC article, it certainly sounds like a right old mess of an area, but it would appear that this was a particularly brutal incident even by the abysmal standards of the Mekong River.

I also find it interesting that there was a reference to a gun fight and police seizing the boats. Given the unusual savagery and completely unnecessary execution style killings, as well as the handcuffs on one of the dead, I do seriously wonder if this was a case of especially brutal drug dealers or a spectacularly botched police operation.

Normally, if you went to the effort of tying up and blindfolding your captives, you are not planning on killing them or else you would have just killed them straight away and saved yourself the extra hassle. Blindfolding is an especially strong indication that the captors do not want to just kill the captives as there would be no concern about what the captives might see if you intended to kill them all alone.

Also, if you just executed the entire crew of a passing boat and had all the time in the world to dispose of the bodies, why would you not take off the handcuffs you used to restrain them? Handcuffs are not expensive things, but they are not exactly throw-away items either. Especially since something like that could potentially be traced back to you somehow.

The more details that emerge, the worse this thing stinks.

Given the widespread lawlessness and the savagery of this incident, I do wonder if it is time China pushed for more than just official Thai police investigations. Especially if there is any evidence that Thai police action might have contributed to this tragedy or if there is any hint of a cover-up. But it is hard to see any good options.

Demanding that PLAN or Chinese police patrol boats be allowed to patrol the river will almost certainly not be acceptable to the Thais, and even security on Chinese boats would be problematic as you can bet your bottom dollar that you will have bleeding hearts or people with an axe to grind putting grief stricken family members in front of the cameras crying about how Chinese soldiers killed their beloved son even if that son was killed because he tried to hi-jack a civilian boat with an assault rifle.

Drugs is not a problem the military can solve. You need solid law enforcement presence on the ground providing security and plenty of develop money and viable alternatives for farmers. That is going to cost a lot of lives and coin, and I do not see the Thai government having the capabilities or stomach for the kind of measures needed to root out the problem.

Somalia only got broad international support because western ships and crews were being taken. As long as these animals don't go executing a boat load of westerners on the Mekong, the world won't give a crap, just like it doesn't give a crap about how many Mexicans or Columbians gets killed in their drug wars. Any attempt by China to protect it's shipping and civilians will be portrayed as 'bullying' and 'expansionism' by the usual suspects and gleefully lapped up by the western media.

I think China is playing the best card it can at the moment - economics. Suspension of all Chinese shipping is going to hit a lot of people hard in Thailand, especially if it lasts any length of time. Nothing gets action like hitting vested interests in their wallets. Although the risk is always that the local police will just round up some scapegoats to execute to 'resolve' the situation and the real culprits are never brought to justice and are free to do this kind of savage act again.

Moral of the story: enter hell holes at your own risk. Happened in Philippines, happened here.