Big number equals better dur hur.... I won't go on anymore seeing this is the Turkey thread but any idiot can see using a big exo-atmospheric missile for air defence is a bad idea.
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Turkey Military News, Reports, Data, etc.
- Thread starter Jeff Head
- Start date
Big number equals better dur hur.... I won't go on anymore seeing this is the Turkey thread but any idiot can see using a big exo-atmospheric missile for air defence is a bad idea.
Oops my bad. I meant David's Sling. Which is superior to S-400 in almost every way and uses AESA instead of PESA. India can't afford CAATSA. Tejas uses F404 engine which would be blocked if India don't give up S-400. On top of that, India is phasing out Il-38 with P-8, Mi-24 with Apache, and is on the verge of getting the new F-15EX which has just been approved for sale to India to phase out Su-30MKI, and Super Hornet which has been recently tested for Vikrant carrier to phase out MiG-29K. India has much to lose for no gain if India goes ahead with S-400 and gets CAATSA slapped on it. Turkey had to go with S-400 to stop Putin's offensive against Idlib. India don't have any such political consideration considering Russian technology lags behind Israel and US in just about every sector these days.
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I haven't heard anything about India cancelling the purchase of the S-400.
With regards to the S-400 purchase by Turkey it had nothing to do with Syria. Turkey has wanted to purchase a modern air defense system for a long time. Initially they made a competition and China won the competition with the FD-2000. The US state department basically convinced the Turks to cancel that deal. But none of Turkey's Western allies was willing to provide Turkey with tech transfer on air defense systems. That's why Turkey got the S-400 from Russia.
With regards to the S-400 purchase by Turkey it had nothing to do with Syria. Turkey has wanted to purchase a modern air defense system for a long time. Initially they made a competition and China won the competition with the FD-2000. The US state department basically convinced the Turks to cancel that deal. But none of Turkey's Western allies was willing to provide Turkey with tech transfer on air defense systems. That's why Turkey got the S-400 from Russia.
I haven't heard anything about India cancelling the purchase of the S-400.
With regards to the S-400 purchase by Turkey it had nothing to do with Syria. Turkey has wanted to purchase a modern air defense system for a long time. Initially they made a competition and China won the competition with the FD-2000. The US state department basically convinced the Turks to cancel that deal. But none of Turkey's Western allies was willing to provide Turkey with tech transfer on air defense systems. That's why Turkey got the S-400 from Russia.
In 2017 Putin was going after Idlib and that means millions more refugees in Turkey. So Erdogan and Putin made a deal. Erdogan buy S-400 and get CAATSA in exchange Putin will stop offensive against Idlib. Putin never stuck to his end of the deal but it did somewhat alleviate the situation in Idlib with Turkish army still controlling the capital city. Turkey was offered Patriot PAC 3 which Turkey had to turn down for S-400 as part of deal with Putin. Turkey could have bought S-400 from China instead and avoided CAATSA but had to stick to the deal with Putin and buy S-400 from Russia and get CAATSA.
You are forgetting a lot of context here. Turkey at the time had poor relations with the US because of the coup attempt against Erdogan. He was convinced the US was behind the coup attempt.
There is no evidence the coup was orchestrated by Obama.
Does it even matter? Turkey and the US had frayed relations.
AFAIK the US only offered to sell the Patriot to Turkey after the S-400 sales. And still no tech transfer on the deal.
Russia has already helped South Korea in the past with tech transfer of air defense systems to develop KM-SAM and quite likely they will do the same with Turkey.
AFAIK the US only offered to sell the Patriot to Turkey after the S-400 sales. And still no tech transfer on the deal.
Russia has already helped South Korea in the past with tech transfer of air defense systems to develop KM-SAM and quite likely they will do the same with Turkey.
Does it even matter? Turkey and the US had frayed relations.
AFAIK the US only offered to sell the Patriot to Turkey after the S-400 sales. And still no tech transfer on the deal.
Russia has already helped South Korea in the past with tech transfer of air defense systems to develop KM-SAM and quite likely they will do the same with Turkey.
KM-SAM is joint project between Russia and South Korea. In Russia it is called S-350, used for example on Gorshkov frigates.
S-400 is not a joint venture. If Turkey is interested in a joint venture, they may choose to invest in S-500 development. No country honestly transfers technology unless it is a joint venture such as Eurofighter Typhoon or BrahMos. India can't even build Su-30MKI without components imported from Russia.
The fact remains Turkey is hit hard by CAATSA. F-16 is pretty much grounded with no spare parts available from US, not to mention the demise of Turkey's TF-X fifth generation fighter jet powered by F110. Although their ships and subs are doing okay considering these rely on EU components.
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The KM-SAM uses a similar radar to the one in the S-400 and uses the medium range missile which is used in both the S-400 and S-350.
It does not have the long range missile of the S-400 but that's about it. The South Koreans have a program for a future defense system called the L-SAM which both uses the long range missile and an AESA radar of their own development.
Don't you find interesting that the South Koreans chose to develop this weapon system with the aid of the Russians? They have a fairly advanced weapons industry of their own. Their electronics industry is more advanced than the Russian one. But the US won't grant them tech transfer. They might have a lot of industry and civilian expertise but they still need the Russians' help to bring the program to fruition properly.
Turkey has a policy where they seek to manufacture and develop their own weapons systems. This is seen basically everywhere, where they licensed the Spanish LHD design for manufacture in Turkey, picked South Korea to help with development of the Altay MBT, etc.
It does not have the long range missile of the S-400 but that's about it. The South Koreans have a program for a future defense system called the L-SAM which both uses the long range missile and an AESA radar of their own development.
Don't you find interesting that the South Koreans chose to develop this weapon system with the aid of the Russians? They have a fairly advanced weapons industry of their own. Their electronics industry is more advanced than the Russian one. But the US won't grant them tech transfer. They might have a lot of industry and civilian expertise but they still need the Russians' help to bring the program to fruition properly.
Turkey has a policy where they seek to manufacture and develop their own weapons systems. This is seen basically everywhere, where they licensed the Spanish LHD design for manufacture in Turkey, picked South Korea to help with development of the Altay MBT, etc.
The KM-SAM uses a similar radar to the one in the S-400 and uses the medium range missile which is used in both the S-400 and S-350.
It does not have the long range missile of the S-400 but that's about it. The South Koreans have a program for a future defense system called the L-SAM which both uses the long range missile and an AESA radar of their own development.
Which is my point. There are so many choices Turkey has, including joint venture with South Korea on SAM the way Indonesia does with South Korea on KF-X. Not to mention buying S-400 from China. The fact Turkey had to buy S-400 from Russia was to stop Putin's offensive in Idlib and millions of refugees going to Turkey.