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sequ

sequ

Major
Registered Member
sequ said:
If Murad-100A has 150km range against 1m2 RCS target
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The more I look into fighter AESA radars in the last few days, the more I'm convinced that "If" can be dropped.

Temel Kotil wasn't BS-ing when he said that Hürjets radar (and its missiles) will reach 200km...

Aselsan has achieved some wonders with their GaN based TRMs. They packed 16 of them together in a single tile based square, with ~6.5cm sides at 2.5cm2 for every TRM (~2897cm2 / 1152TRM)

LKF601E reaches 170km against 'fighter size' aircraft meaning most likely 5m2 RCS, on par with APG-80 but with 864 TRM at a surface area of 2800cm2 (60*60cm array size official spec, 53*53cm aperture my calculation) meaning 3.2cm2 for every TRM (at said 53*53cm).

Hürjet Murad radar reaches the same result with up to 28% smaller aperture but with a TRM count of ~800.

This means a 200km range for hypothetical Murad-Hürjet for a 10m2 RCS target, ~115km vs 1m2 with a TRM count of ~800 at ~2000cm2 aperture size at a TRM density of 1 per 2.5cm2

Time will tell how many blocks of TRM they are going to fit in Hurjets nose. 800 TRM divides nicely in 50 blocks of 16 each...

 
sequ

sequ

Major
Registered Member
Theoretically Kaans nose is large enough to carry 3x Murad-100 equivalents with 3456 TRM. The surface area of such a massive array is 8674cm2 which translates into a square with 93cm sides or a cirkel with 99cm diameter. This is how a 99cm diameter cirkel looks like with 20 degree tilt factored in:

1721204742678.png

It stretches the limits of available room in the radome but still theoretically possible. However such a large radar faces 3 major hurdles besides the size:

1. Weight. Such a radar with all its systems could easily weigh +400 kg. Granted on a twin engine heavy fighter that isn't too much of a problem.
2. Cooling. Even at 10W per module it means a total of 35 kW or 70kW at 20W or +100kW at 30W.
3. Power. Power generation and delivery of at least 35kW might be an issue.

If they manage to crack the above it will be a mighty radar with AWACS range:

Such a radar would have the following range performance.

1721206993269.png1721208623686.png

450 km @ 1m2 RCS
245 km @ 0.1m2 RCS
143 km @ 0.01m2 RCS
80 km @ 0.001m2 RCS
46 km @ 0.0001m2 RCS

Kaan (and J-20 with just 8.5% smaller radome surface) could detect other 5th generation fighters at the same ranges as 4th gen fighters are detecting other 4th gen fighters.
 
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R

Radonislav

Junior Member
Registered Member
sequ said:
Theoretically Kaans nose is large enough to carry 3x Murad-100 equivalents with 3456 TRM. The surface area of such a massive array is 8674cm2 which translates into a square with 93cm sides or a cirkel with 99cm diameter. This is how a 99cm diameter cirkel looks like with 20 degree tilt factored in:

View attachment 132597

It stretches the limits of available room in the radome but still theoretically possible. However such a large radar faces 3 major hurdles besides the size:

1. Weight. Such a radar with all its systems could easily weigh +400 kg. Granted on a twin engine heavy fighter that isn't too much of a problem.
2. Cooling. Even at 10W per module it means a total of 35 kW or 70kW at 20W or +100kW at 30W.
3. Power. Power generation and delivery of at least 35kW might be an issue.

If they manage to crack the above it will be a mighty radar with AWACS range:

Such a radar would have the following range performance.

View attachment 132599View attachment 132601

450 km @ 1m2 RCS
245 km @ 0.1m2 RCS
143 km @ 0.01m2 RCS
80 km @ 0.001m2 RCS
46 km @ 0.0001m2 RCS

Kaan (and J-20 with just 8.5% smaller radome surface) could detect other 5th generation fighters at the same ranges as 4th gen fighters are detecting other 4th gen fighters.
Click to expand...
Biggest problem I see is the cooling. But for your information as of now, design of the radar has more than 2000 modules
 
sequ

sequ

Major
Registered Member
Hmm if we stretch things even further into the realm of impossibilities, according to Dr. Kopp graphs, a 3456 TRM radar with 30w peak power for a total of 104kW, would result in a detection range of ~800km vs 1m2 RCS....:eek:
 
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sequ

sequ

Major
Registered Member
sequ said:
Hmm if we stretch things even further into the realm of impossibilities, according to Dr. Kopp graphs, a 3456 TRM radar with 30w peak power for a total of 104kW, would result in a detection range of ~800km vs 1m2 RCS....:eek:
Click to expand...
Correction: a 3456 TRM at 30w (peak)power X band AESA radar can have the following detection ranges according to Dr. Kopp theoretical 30w/1600 TRM radar:

1m2= 661km
0.1m2= 372km
0.01m2= 208km
0.001m2= 117km
0.0001m2= 67km

A more realistic 2400 TRM at 30w (peak)power X band AESA can have the following detection ranges:

1m2= 521km
0.1m2= 293km
0.01m2= 166km
0.001m2= 92km
0.0001m2= 52km

The same 2400 TRM radar at 10w power:

1m2= 394km
0.1m2= 222km
0.01m2= 124km
0.001m2= 68km
0.0001m2= 39km
 
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ahmettasci

ahmettasci

New Member
Registered Member
sequ said:
Interesting, according to Mahmut Aksit on the selection of the designer of the Kaan engine:

"In fact, a technical committee of 13 people, made a serious selection and they chose our engine as the first. There was also a rival engine. A foreign company was working on a conceptual design. Ours turned out better."

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Thanks for the video.

I believe the most important information is given aroun 1:06:30 where Dr. Aksit says someting along the lines "We had previously provided to Baykar now we are progressing to serial production, but it is better if I don't give more details". I believe this is indigenous BM100 engine for TB2 whose serial production was first mentioned by Haluk Bayraktar in Capital magazine saying its serial production will start this year. It is highly likely that the engines designed by Baykar will be manufactured by TEI.

Of course, this is just my speculation, take it with a grain of salt.
 
sequ

sequ

Major
Registered Member
ahmettasci said:
Thanks for the video.

I believe the most important information is given aroun 1:06:30 where Dr. Aksit says someting along the lines "We had previously provided to Baykar now we are progressing to serial production, but it is better if I don't give more details". I believe this is indigenous BM100 engine for TB2 whose serial production was first mentioned by Haluk Bayraktar in Capital magazine saying its serial production will start this year. It is highly likely that the engines designed by Baykar will be manufactured by TEI.

Of course, this is just my speculation, take it with a grain of salt.
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Doesn't he mean the PD170 for the TB3 though?
 
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