Equation
Lieutenant General
P-f-f-f-f, there Cantonese little empire is waning that's why. It's the HK upper class elitist that's really having a dramatic issue about it. You don't see the Maconese are having the same issue with the mainland do ya?
training exercise HK Oct 2012-combined force
- Thread starter aquauant
- Start date
P-f-f-f-f, there Cantonese little empire is waning that's why. It's the HK upper class elitist that's really having a dramatic issue about it. You don't see the Maconese are having the same issue with the mainland do ya?
MwRYum
Major
You asking someone who do advocate Sharia law (though I prefer lobbing off heads than hands) against pickpockets, buddy...personally I don't mind feeding those morons through something like "Camp X Ray" on Gitmo to straighten them out, but to do that first you need to outlaw all those damn human rights groups; or entrap them with some terror plot so to invoke emergency status to crack down on the most vocal of online groups and political parties.
Introducing Article 23 is about the same thing - or more controversial - than the US introducing PATRIOT Act, but US got the 9-11 attack as backdrop to pass through the process, HK would need something just as dire to introduce something like that.
The 1% can always emigrate abroad (bah, more like they already did), it's the 99% who sees the world change faster than they can adapt - when the good-old-days were still fresh memory. Folks in Macau have their problems sure but they got a smaller population to deal with, a steady gambling industry to feed the gov't coffers for generous handouts every year, and already passed laws to thumb down the "undesirable elements"...
Last edited:
aquauant
Junior Member
Huh? What do you mean by Cantonese little empire? I dont get it. What Guangdong people got to do with secession or national education? A few colonial flag-waving youngsters who are not old enough to remember much about the colonial HK and the tiger moms who think national education sucks do not a Cantonese little empire make, just because they protest in Guangdonghua. They are upper class elite? They wish.
I dont even know how you define HK upper class. People with money? People in government? The indigenous natives in HK before the colonization? I dont think they are predominately from Guangdong. A lot of Shanghaiese came during revolution. They were backbone of HK's industries. Yes, they speak Guangdonghou. I reckon they must be "Cantonese" to you. But I think they are technically westerners, I suspect, because rich in HK has greater access to western passport. Their children mostly likely educated in western countries. Of course, having western passport does not mean one is rich. But rich usually has easier path to foreign citizenship than common people. Maybe it is the waning western empire you are talking about.
And I dont believe the western-educated ones in HK regard themselves as upper class. But it would be silly of them to think so. But I am not sure about those in the west though. But they dont live in China and I could care less.
Basically, it is difficult for me to see who belongs to the "cantonese little empire" if there is such a thing. You mean those protesting people? They are the waning empire's people? Then I guess we have many empires here every sat and sun. I can assure you that they are nothing but waning. Every possible protests is possible and never ending. It has become a tourist attraction.
In this forum, I found many new terms, e.g. king of democracy and now Cantonese empire. It is educational because I never knew their existence.
I find some westerners have vivid imaginations and are able to create things out of nowhere. Some of you are very inventive, especially the members of this forum. They always try very hard to differentiate Chinese. And they preach here so hard so often that I begin to think they may be right after all. We Chinese must be hating each other all the time. Mainland vs Taiwan vs Macau vs Hong Kong vs .... A few silly catfights between Chinese and we are supposed to be a race at war with ourselves. I guess I just have not received the memo from overseas. Most of us here were naively looking past our difference and believe we Chinese are the same even though we are different in opinion. We were so wrong. I reckon I was fooled when I work in Guangxi and the villagers were so nice to me. Probably they hated my gut. In Guangzhou, I did not realize my friends and relatives despise me even though we knew each other for years. What a fool I was, I did not even know I suppose to hate myself for being born in mainland but now living in HK.
Thank you westerners. You have done so much for us in the past and keep doing it without being asked. I only hope we wont need your service for too long now.
airsuperiority
Captain
Too well said man. Even though as regular member of this forum, I do find this as one of the criticisms I will place towards this forum too. And the other thing is some of the pro-Chinese bias. They seem to support China too much when in fact there really are problems.
People protesting about HK is all too often and a regular thing, but I don't get how that's supposed to equate a Cantonese empire. HKers' protests in regards to China are usually towards things which disrupts our way of life, from Article 23 which suffocate HK's democratic rights(freedom of speech and freedom of assembly) to Nationalistic Education to surges of mainland Chinese pregnants crossing their borders intentionally JUST TO give birth in HK SO they have access to benefits. The results led to a jump from 20,000 annual birth rates(of this population coming from China) delivered in HK shot up to 74,000 in a few years' time, leading to HK hospitals unable to provide sufficient wards for HK's very own citizens because that population flooded our hospitals. Going further: mannerisms of many of them are terrible. They cut in lines, scream back at you when you tell them to line up, eat inside the train when rules forbid, take a piss or a leak inside a garbage can, spit everywhere..basically causing a disruptive nuisance to our culture and lifestyle. Entering HK, they should respect our cultures as this is the same as you respect the host's rules when you pay someone a visit. It was never Mandarin-speakers that we minded, but rather the actions of the groups which started flooding HK post-handover which cause us so much distress. We protest because we feared as the years go on, HK's culture, identities, would be eroded by the dilution as more mainland Chinese enters HK. Dilution isn't a problem when everyone can get along fine and well together and work together and the differences are appreciated, as in essences should make the society more open and stronger, but what it doing now is splitting the society up in a bad way.
For all of these, they are concerns shared by HKers of all walks and social classes, and DEFINITELY NOT by some "upper class". Actually it's the HK's professionals and middle classes who are severely concerned. The few random idiots who threw the Union Jack were exceptions and doesn't represent anyone. Even many of those with Western passports or received education in the West would not consider ourselves upper class.
Finally, I'm from HK and lived there in the early years before going to Canada. My mom's side went to HK from China a long time ago. In that technical aspect, they were mainland Chinese too. So what's the issue? The earlier generations who went to HK were honest and hardworking. Some smuggled their way into HK and started their life. Things were great back then. There had never been discrimination just simply because of their political identity. It's the post-handover generations which brings with them all these troubles which gives us issues, and it's those who bring with them THEIR mannerisms and troubles which cause us distress who we have issues with.
I recall very vividly of a recent forum thread on Uwants, where quite a bit of waste-of-time HK netizens troll. A netizen identified herself as from China opened a thread asking what spurred the current negativity of local HKers towards mainland China. Her attitudes were very humble and modest, and despite that, she started her thread in one of the worst places possible. The reactions received were astonishing. The forum members there started to reply to her in a very open, honest, and courteous manner, and it's one of the few times I see healthy discussion in that forum. This proves that for all along it's never been against mainland Chinese people simply for who they are; instead it's how someone acts and what they do. This girl was very courteous and everything, and those forum members treated her with respect.
I think all this friction between HKer and Main-lander has much to do with battle of ego. That seem to happen to all China neighbor that is heavily influence by Chinese civilization and therefore care about honor or face a lot. They all fear this invasion of super duper Chinese culture that is going to drown their identity. Even HK which is suppose to be part of Chinese culture. That is why someone mention Cantonese empire. The fact of the matter is Cantonese is a very large group that is seen by others to be somewhat the odd man out and reluctant to fit in.
While HKer has the right to kept their unique identity, but the way the HKer going about it is seen by many main-lander to be somewhat condescending. And it has been mentioned by some that HKer did it that way precisely because of their bruise ego when China takeover HK. Politically motivated local or foreign elements stroking the fire also does not help. I think this is the reason for the mentioning of upper class elitist.
Someone told me that the mainland Chinese pregnant women problem start because the civil right minded HK politician insist of giving them the right to come to HK. When it become a problem, China is to be blame again. Now that the Chinese government imposed some sort of ban, nobody in HK mention civil right again.
Chinese main lander has different traditional social manner and etiquette. Because of previous isolation, it takes time for majority of them to learn the norm of today society. Big improvement has already been observed in this department in past few years.
I remember the incident of eating inside the train earliest this year. Is that really called for? I mean that incident is really blown all out of proportion. Venomous remark from both side thrown at each other, all over a little girl eating inside train?
I think HKer really have to work among themselves to figure out what exactly are they going. The Chinese government are willing to help in whatever possible way as long as HK stay friendly within the country. HK already benefited economically from policy of the Chinese government.
Hker is just learning to govern by themselves, they need to understand that there are give and take in this world. Frankly speaking, I think that they are too confident for their own good.
airsuperiority
Captain
Fair words within. When I first watched that video, I disagree with the quote "that's how those mainlanders are" because it's racist and ignorant. My mom say that often, so I totally recognize the issues with that sentence. As for how it started, it began when someone tried to politely tell the mother that her children shouldn't be eating inside the train. The result was the mother's remarks which kicked the ball off.
As for HK-China, one thing you've mistaken is that with things like Article 23 and Nationalistic Education, we don't see the CCP as that sincere aside from being sincere in trying to control us. Why are they attempting to limit our freedom of speech and instill patriotism within our society? HK's patriotism is more rational because we observe from many factors and had been without any foreign influence. We take pride from the Chinese language, heritage, history, defend Diaoyu as a Chinese, donate to Sichuan because we're Chinese, support Beijing Olympics..but will criticize CCP when it deserves it. Of course I ain't saying we're the best because we still have many flaws, but our version doesn't require hating on Japan in mass protests in the same way it occurred in China, and we don't sing about how much we love the motherland. This is why we are deeply insulted and repulsed by Nationalistic Education.
I really don't think upper class have anything to do with all this because all the sentiments occur from people's daily interaction. Furthermore, while I admit there's probably some HK ego as a factor into seeing mainland Chinese, overall the major complaints were all mentioned as previously. Regardless, I feel mainland Chinese in HK should work to improve what we criticize them off. When what we accuse them of are no longer factual, it's HK's turn to change.
I'm still waiting for you to show me some examples of this "Nationalistic Education", do you have a link? Let me see if it is as bad as the one we have here in US.
airsuperiority
Captain
Is that it? They went to the street yelling and protesting over this stuff? Judging from the news, I was expecting seeing page and pages of Mao's Red Book or something, I am not impressed.
Talk about overreaction.
MwRYum
Major
It is, but when it clash with a major election, blend in a bunch of soccer moms, general anti-gov't + anti-CPC + anti-China sentiments...well, you get the point.
Still, the whole thing weren't well packaged, the HK gov't should learn from Singapore on this thing.