MwRYum
Major
More like they finally have enough of this crap, and when the message is explicitly a separatist one, that's something Beijing would never take it lightly.
training exercise HK Oct 2012-combined force
- Thread starter aquauant
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More like they finally have enough of this crap, and when the message is explicitly a separatist one, that's something Beijing would never take it lightly.
airsuperiority
Captain
Re: ¦^��: Re: training exercise HK Oct 2012-combined force
You got the link? I just wanna watch the action. And I think that "debate" is just so stupid to begin with because it's apparent that neither sides are "rational and objective" people.
You got the link? I just wanna watch the action. And I think that "debate" is just so stupid to begin with because it's apparent that neither sides are "rational and objective" people.
MwRYum
Major
Re: ¦^��: Re: training exercise HK Oct 2012-combined force
If you can listen to Cantonese you can try this:
But for those who don't:
The "insurgent":
If you can listen to Cantonese you can try this:
But for those who don't:
And some of those "separatist movement groups" Facebook groups, take a look if you can endure their utmost stupidity...fortunately, mostly in Chinese...
The "insurgent":
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aquauant
Junior Member
Re: ¦^��: Re: training exercise HK Oct 2012-combined force
I myself would not give too much thought on the separatism or secession movement. Most of population in HK are 1st or 2nd generation mainlanders. Unlike Tibetan or Uighurs, we (over 97%) are culturally and racially the same . During holidays, more than a million hkers visit or return home in mainland. Yes, a lot of westerners like to amplify the differences or arguments between hkers and mainlanders. 10 years ago, the western media even predicted Guangdong would secede. They always choose to neglect the less vocal silent majority of both. I believe we have the same more than we have differences.
Separatists always exist since colonial time. Not much is heard about it because it is so obscure that most dont know it. I myself did not hear about it until the news talks about it. Now I know they even have a website. I think most hkers are as ignorant about this as myself. Most just want to make ends meet.
I think the central government is smarter than are given credit for. I am sure the officials are disappointed that some hoists union flag during protest. But I dont think the exercise is a warning to the hk public about separatism. This kind of exercises happens every year and are scheduled long beforehand. In colonial time, they practiced even more in fact. Internal security exercise is to train for protecting civilians against internal turmoil. It could be armed bandits, violent riots, infiltration, terrorists and of course insurgents from various sources not just local separatists but others. I think the news media chose to portrait the exercise as such for sensationalism.
I myself would not give too much thought on the separatism or secession movement. Most of population in HK are 1st or 2nd generation mainlanders. Unlike Tibetan or Uighurs, we (over 97%) are culturally and racially the same . During holidays, more than a million hkers visit or return home in mainland. Yes, a lot of westerners like to amplify the differences or arguments between hkers and mainlanders. 10 years ago, the western media even predicted Guangdong would secede. They always choose to neglect the less vocal silent majority of both. I believe we have the same more than we have differences.
Separatists always exist since colonial time. Not much is heard about it because it is so obscure that most dont know it. I myself did not hear about it until the news talks about it. Now I know they even have a website. I think most hkers are as ignorant about this as myself. Most just want to make ends meet.
I think the central government is smarter than are given credit for. I am sure the officials are disappointed that some hoists union flag during protest. But I dont think the exercise is a warning to the hk public about separatism. This kind of exercises happens every year and are scheduled long beforehand. In colonial time, they practiced even more in fact. Internal security exercise is to train for protecting civilians against internal turmoil. It could be armed bandits, violent riots, infiltration, terrorists and of course insurgents from various sources not just local separatists but others. I think the news media chose to portrait the exercise as such for sensationalism.
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airsuperiority
Captain
And to be honest, if HK really were to secede, I'd rather Hong Kong emerge as an independent state like Singapore instead of under British rule. Hong Kong's standing in the international community would equate to Singapore or Switzerland as politically neutral while part of the free 1st world.
MwRYum
Major
Singapore's case was in fact "got tossed out" rather than the "leave by choice", more like a case of "teach the noisy little brother a lesson" on a very large scale...
That said, the kind of thing those idiots at HK demanding is vastly different, their participants' mentality is a blend of romanticism, naivety and a dash of skin-head...and most of them haven't reach 30s.
Re: ¦^��: Re: training exercise HK Oct 2012-combined force
Why not look at it from China's perspective... C'mon, you do remember that little protest in Tienanmen turned into big protest that almost bring down the government? The Chinese Secret Service and Paramilitary police have no luxury to take things like that lightly. Arrest those dumass British flag tolling idiots for 48 hours should sweat some common sense into them.
You see... when it is something that disrupt the function of US government, it is legitimate response. But when the same dude that calls for damn fall of Chinese government in China.. which is a disruption of the Chinese government, it is a violation of "Human Rights" And need to be widely reported in the newspaper.
Nope, no double standard here.
Why not look at it from China's perspective... C'mon, you do remember that little protest in Tienanmen turned into big protest that almost bring down the government? The Chinese Secret Service and Paramilitary police have no luxury to take things like that lightly. Arrest those dumass British flag tolling idiots for 48 hours should sweat some common sense into them.
You see... when it is something that disrupt the function of US government, it is legitimate response. But when the same dude that calls for damn fall of Chinese government in China.. which is a disruption of the Chinese government, it is a violation of "Human Rights" And need to be widely reported in the newspaper.
Nope, no double standard here.
MwRYum
Major
Re: ¦^��: Re: training exercise HK Oct 2012-combined force
I get the drift...*sigh*
But here's an hardly advertised fact of China: at the time of Tienanmen incident, China in terms of crowd control have yet evolve into the "non-lethal" level, and so when comes to dispel a demonstration as huge as that one back then, the only solution known to them is one involve a lot of shooting and naturally, a lot of killing. After that, the PAP were earmarked with such role and kitted out as such...
For HK though, if and when the police can't handle the crowd, then it must be something at the level of T-virus outbreak, or some big asteroid is about a week away from impacting Earth...as such, deploying the PLA won't turn things around anyway.
I get the drift...*sigh*
But here's an hardly advertised fact of China: at the time of Tienanmen incident, China in terms of crowd control have yet evolve into the "non-lethal" level, and so when comes to dispel a demonstration as huge as that one back then, the only solution known to them is one involve a lot of shooting and naturally, a lot of killing. After that, the PAP were earmarked with such role and kitted out as such...
For HK though, if and when the police can't handle the crowd, then it must be something at the level of T-virus outbreak, or some big asteroid is about a week away from impacting Earth...as such, deploying the PLA won't turn things around anyway.
Re: ¦^��: Re: training exercise HK Oct 2012-combined force
I have no idea what you are trying to say, I am not defending the people that suffered at Tienanmen. I am saying just as US or any other nation that take the threat of bring down the government very seriously. So is China, but for some reason when the Chinese government crack down, the Western media all cry "Human right" abuses, but when they are the ones doing it themselves they see no problem with it at all.
I have no idea what you are trying to say, I am not defending the people that suffered at Tienanmen. I am saying just as US or any other nation that take the threat of bring down the government very seriously. So is China, but for some reason when the Chinese government crack down, the Western media all cry "Human right" abuses, but when they are the ones doing it themselves they see no problem with it at all.