Trade War with China

Status
Not open for further replies.

Max Demian

Junior Member
Registered Member
Well, sorry to say this, but you don't decide what's childish or not. You live in a country that is far less political because it has no chance of being a world superpower so it is natural for you to care far less about these things. Chinese people see this as an attack on our country and an insult to our relationship with Canada.

I think you mean far less nationalist than the US and China. Yes, that's true.

If a businessperson from my country was arrested in China, I would not immediately see that as an attack on me or my country. The one thing that would upset me is if I found out that he's being tortured or mistreated in a way that violates his human rights. But if he was given fair trial and access to legal counsel then I would accept whatever sentence is handed down on him, even if in my country the offense is not even a crime. Now, I might not think that it was the "right" decision if it contradicts my set of moral values, but I wouldn't go about boycotting China or calling for its downfall.

This, combined with the fact that I look down upon nationalism, makes it difficult for me to understand the reactions of some people on this board.
 

Biscuits

Major
Registered Member
I think you mean far less nationalist than the US and China. Yes, that's true.

If a businessperson from my country was arrested in China, I would not immediately see that as an attack on me or my country. The one thing that would upset me is if I found out that he's being tortured or mistreated in a way that violates his human rights. But if he was given fair trial and access to legal counsel then I would accept whatever sentence is handed down on him, even if in my country the offense is not even a crime. Now, I might not think that it was the "right" decision if it contradicts my set of moral values, but I wouldn't go about boycotting China or calling for its downfall.

This, combined with the fact that I look down upon nationalism, makes it difficult for me to understand the reactions of some people on this board.

I agree.

It is important that we stick to criticize only the illegal aspects of the trial and case.

To seek to attack innocent Canadians in response to an attack on an innocent Chinese would be lowering and compromising China’s values. If China does that, then the west has already won!

Instead, the focus should be on bringing the perps and their organization to justice and freeing hostage(s). Canadian and American spies should be apprehended and given fair trial & punishment, until their parent organizations cease all illegal activity.
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
Exceptionally psychotic.

You're talking something that in principle amounts to "China selling the US J-20's to populate and adversary squadron", so since China wouldn't do that they are psychotic????

you gents are building little strawmen for sure, NO, US is NOT going to sell the F-35 to China....

China is NOT going to sell the J-20 to India.....

The US defended and protected China in WWII from the Japanese invasion, Americans and Chinese fought side by side, when Japan was defeated, those heroic Chinese were driven from their homeland by communist Chinese, to the island of Formosa

so NO, US and China are NOT going to sell one another top tier weapons,,, and yes will continue to defend our allies, were-ever they may be....
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
Like I said, the USA wouldn't sell any weapons system that was critically important for them.
Let's say China offered to buy the F-35B. Do you think the USA would sell it? Or a Virginia class submarine? Russia basically leased an Akula submarine to India. I think even if China asked for a now mostly obsolete weapon system like the B-1 the US would still not sell it to them. Yet they still plan to strike them down once the B-21 Raider is available.

We are talking about the country that crushed F-14 Tomcat aircraft and destroyed the tooling allegedly so Iran couldn't get access to parts to upkeep their aircraft. That's the kind of people you are dealing with. They also scrapped their Spruance-class destroyers and now they're concerned China will catch them up in naval fleet size over the next two decades. It's kind of pathetic really.

Russia sold the best fighters they had back then. In fact Russia export fighters were better than those available to the Russian Air Force when the Su-30MK sales were made. Russia also sold the BMP-3 (for example to South Korea) and other then leading edge weapon systems to pay down debt.

I don't see the US doing that any time soon. Because, you know, they are "exceptional".

On the other hand , the US and China are trade partners, in fact one of the largest Cad Cam Mills in the world will be delivered to China shortly, it is being prepped for transport now, it is huge, 87,000lbs and 17 ft wide, it will NOT be able to transported down China's streets to its new home, likely flown in piece by piece by Russian heavy lift choppers, trade deal is at an end it would seem.....
 
You're talking something that in principle amounts to "China selling the US J-20's to populate and adversary squadron", so since China wouldn't do that they are psychotic????

you gents are building little strawmen for sure, NO, US is NOT going to sell the F-35 to China....

China is NOT going to sell the J-20 to India.....

The US defended and protected China in WWII from the Japanese invasion, Americans and Chinese fought side by side, when Japan was defeated, those heroic Chinese were driven from their homeland by communist Chinese, to the island of Formosa

so NO, US and China are NOT going to sell one another top tier weapons,,, and yes will continue to defend our allies, were-ever they may be....

Gotta ask you to get your history straight Brat. The US started assisting China in deals that also served US interests years into Japan's invasion of China, mainly after Japan also attacked Western colonial holdings in China and the US itself in Hawaii. The "heroic" and "communist" circles of Chinese also overlapped contrary to your implication. The Japanese invasion was also the latest among many foreign invasions of China by colonial powers including Western ones and the US, even though the US practiced relatively less heavy handed colonialism in China. The Chinese civil war among many factions with many switching sides was also a drawn out affair overlapping chronologically with all these other happenings.
 

Equation

Lieutenant General
I think you mean far less nationalist than the US and China. Yes, that's true.

If a businessperson from my country was arrested in China, I would not immediately see that as an attack on me or my country. The one thing that would upset me is if I found out that he's being tortured or mistreated in a way that violates his human rights. But if he was given fair trial and access to legal counsel then I would accept whatever sentence is handed down on him, even if in my country the offense is not even a crime. Now, I might not think that it was the "right" decision if it contradicts my set of moral values, but I wouldn't go about boycotting China or calling for its downfall.

This, combined with the fact that I look down upon nationalism, makes it difficult for me to understand the reactions of some people on this board.


Well once again, I don't know what country you're from since you're adverse to saying and I don't know why but let's assume that your country is especially known for your prowess in.... cars. America wants to hold on to its leading position in cars (which it has in this alternate timeline) and thus asks Canada to kidnap the daughter of the company's owner so it can hold her ransom for his curtailing of the company's performance. Canada goes along with it, purely because it is scared to defy its powerful southern neighbor. Would you not be angry?

If not, that's fine and that's you. Chinese and Americans go to the Olympics to cheer their team at the gold medal tables while Moldovans go to enjoy sports. I understand both sides of the coin but for you to be unable to even fathom why people can be nationalistic, then that is a flaw in your ability to understand the world and those who are different. Whatever you like for yourself is fine but if you want to say that you look down on others who are nationalistic, then I must say that I have far less respect for those who aren't. Those little people who care not what happens around them until misfortune befalls their own heads are not men at all. They are no different from animals that flee from attackers and seek only the comforts of food and shelter. They have no grand vision. People who do not love their country and which to serve it deserve to be without nationality and without the corresponding protections afforded by such.

Biscuits has a very cute idea, to hold those who are directly responsible for their actions and spare the innocents. Perfect; I like it! The only problem is that it's not possible. How would you punish those Canadian judges and politicians who have determined that Meng's kidnap was proper? Certainly, if Canada found them guilty of corruption and jailed them or extradited them to China for punishment, then Canada's atonement would be complete. But that is not the real world. In the real world, those people are protected by their nation and their people. The Canadian people are responsible for the actions of their democratically elected leaders and the government system that they operate under and they must be held accountable. We simply cannot have a situation where those who are directly responsible are tucked away safely while those to protect them are off limits due to their "innocence." Therefore, I do the best that I can do, which is to boycott Canadian products and I must admit, I'm having very little luck as I can hardly find anything that they make that I would have purchased anyway.
 

Biscuits

Major
Registered Member
@Equation

It is easier than you think it is.

The guilty party is the Five eyes intelligence, and it is committing crimes in China as we speak. A lot of these spies, if not a majority, are painted by the MSS. But they are let go in order not to rock the boat - fed false data or counter recruited by China to keep building the database of known spies.

To haul in a couple of them is not hard, and China has already hauled in two of them and they are awaiting their trials.

What China is facing here is terror. An attack on an innocent civilian to scare society at large to conform with a criminal spying group’s demands.

To fight a terror organization, the best way is to target their key members one by one until they can no longer afford to carry out attacks.
 

localizer

Colonel
Registered Member
@Equation

It is easier than you think it is.

The guilty party is the Five eyes intelligence, and it is committing crimes in China as we speak. A lot of these spies, if not a majority, are painted by the MSS. But they are let go in order not to rock the boat - fed false data or counter recruited by China to keep building the database of known spies.

To haul in a couple of them is not hard, and China has already hauled in two of them and they are awaiting their trials.

What China is facing here is terror. An attack on an innocent civilian to scare society at large to conform with a criminal spying group’s demands.

To fight a terror organization, the best way is to target their key members one by one until they can no longer afford to carry out attacks.

Terrorist one method. Alternatively, sudden economic sanctions/embargos are all about "starving the children" (Yemen, Iraq) as Ron Paul puts it. Trump wants other countries to bring down agriculture subsidies and flood them with US crops. How can any country put themselves in such a precarious situation? Imagine your sources for grocery being cut off.
 

zgx09t

Junior Member
Registered Member
Stable genius would certainly pass it off as the greatest winning deal of the century for the country.
With this MSCI index expansion for China shares, Xi's team played it well, and deftly.

U.S. and China Near Deal That Could End Most U.S. Tariffs
By Jenny Leonard
March 4, 2019, 4:45 AM GMT+9 Updated on March 4, 2019, 10:52 AM GMT+9

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


The U.S. and China are close to a trade deal that could lift most or all U.S. tariffs as long as Beijing follows through on pledges ranging from better protecting intellectual-property rights to buying a significant amount of American products, two people familiar with the discussions said.

Chinese officials made clear in a series of negotiations with the U.S. in recent weeks that removing levies on $200 billion of Chinese goods quickly was necessary to finalize any deal, said the people, who weren’t authorized to talk publicly about the deliberations. That’s the amount the Trump administration imposed after China retaliated against the U.S.’s first salvo of $50 billion in tariffs that kicked off the eight-month trade war.

One of the remaining sticking points is whether the tariffs would be lifted immediately or over a period of time to allow the U.S. to monitor whether China is meeting its obligations, the people said. The U.S. wants to continue to wield the threat of tariffs as leverage to ensure China won’t renege on the deal, and only lift the duties fully when Beijing implemented all parts of the agreement.

As part of the ongoing talks, the U.S. asked the Chinese not to retaliate or bring World Trade Organization cases in response to U.S. tariffs that could be imposed to enforce the deal, according to a person familiar with the negotiations.

Dates for a summit between President Donald Trump and counterpart Xi Jinping have yet to be agreed, according to officials from both countries who declined to be named. The Wall Street Journal, which reported earlier that the U.S. and China were close to finalizing a trade pact, reported the summit could happen around March 27.

Plans for a signing ceremony have been complicated by Xi’s need to lead China’s annual National People’s Congress and to make other foreign trips.
Asian stocks rose with U.S. futures, and the yuan and Australian dollar advanced in early Asian Monday trading.
China’s Offer

China is offering to lower tariffs on U.S. farm, chemical, auto and other products, the Journal said, citing people familiar with the situation. Specifically, China would buy $18 billion in natural gas from Houston-based Cheniere Energy Inc., one of the people familiar with the matter said.

As part of a deal, China is pledging to speed up the timetable for removing foreign-ownership limitations on auto ventures, and to reduce tariffs on imported vehicles to below the current rate of 15 percent, the newspaper reported.

A senior administration official cautioned on Sunday that a decision had not yet been made over lifting the U.S tariffs. The official also said a debate was continuing inside the administration with Trump unlikely to make a decision before a deal was closer to being done, likening to situation to the debate over what to do with U.S. sanctions in the lead-up to last week’s summit with North Korea’s Kim Jong Un.

Asked during a congressional hearing last week whether a deal would see a lifting of U.S. tariffs, Robert Lighthizer, the China hawk now leading the talks with Beijing, would say only that was China’s desire.
Bloomberg reported Friday that the U.S. and China were close to finalizing a trade deal.

Trump and members of his economic team have has sounded optimistic about the chances for sealing a deal. And U.S. stocks have rebounded from their worst December since the Great Depression on signs the world’s two largest economies are resolving their trade differences without further escalation.
Truce Extended

Citing progress toward a deal, Trump last week delayed a planned increase of tariffs on Chinese imports to 25 percent, from 10 percent, that was scheduled to take effect March 1.

On Friday, Trump said he demanded Beijing, in response to his tariff delay, immediately remove all duties on U.S. agriculture products.

I have asked China to immediately remove all Tariffs on our agricultural products (including beef, pork, etc.) based on the fact that we are moving along nicely with Trade discussions....
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) March 1, 2019

The Chinese have offered to ramp up purchases of American goods by $1.2 trillion over six years, according to a person familiar with the matter. It’s still unclear how Beijing would follow through on those purchases if retaliatory tariffs remained in place and other trading barriers aren’t removed, the person added. China bought $130 billion in U.S. goods in 2017, according to U.S. figures.

After several rounds of face-to-face meetings between U.S. and Chinese officials since last year, the sides are now in regular contact via phone and video-conference to hammer out the details of a deal.

— With assistance by Shawn Donnan
 

Quickie

Colonel
Why is there so much anger in your words? You do realize you are wishing ill to the 37 million people of that country. Perhaps you should show more faith in the Canadian justice system.

I am okay with what was said except for the last sentence.

This must be the most ridiculous comment I've heard for a long time. To the Chinese masses, the Canadian justice has just kidnapped one of its citizen on transit in Canada purportedly on the behest of another country's justice system that the rest of the world knows nothing about, and is not bound to it in any means, and now you are expecting the same Chinese masses to have faith in the Canadian justice system like it's some kind of religion, and just accept any judgment and punishment (specifically, the kidnapping) that comes their way?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top