Trade War with China

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s002wjh

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mean while

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China reportedly plans to slash auto tariffs — a huge win for Trump — and auto stocks are moving
Chinese Vice Premier Liu He has told U.S. officials that China plans to reduce tariffs on American auto imports from 40 percent to 15 percent in a move that could break an escalating trade war between the world’s two largest economies,
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, citing a person familiar with the negotiations.

The vice premier told Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin and U.S. Trade Representative Robert Lighthizer of the decision in a call late Monday, the Journal reported.


Bloomberg News earlier
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that China was moving toward cutting tariffs, citing people familiar with the matter, giving U.S. automakers’ shares a lift before the markets opened. China raised tariffs on U.S. autos to 40 percent in July in retaliation to U.S. tariffs.
China’s Commerce Ministry issued a statement saying the conversation — held Monday evening in the U.S., early Tuesday in China — was meant to “push forward with next steps in a timetable and road map” for negotiations, the Journal reported, adding that Liu plans to come to Washington early next year.

Chinese officials are also considering amending the Made in China 2025 plan, which is designed to give Chinese companies an edge in a number of industries, including artificial intelligence and robotics, the Journal reported. It’s been a sticking point for the U.S., which complains that it allows Beijing to engage in unfair trade practices.

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,
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,
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and
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all rose Tuesday.

A day after President
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agreed to a 90-day trade truce with China at the G-20 summit, he tweeted that the country had agreed to lower these auto tariffs.But after the tweet, neither the White House nor China verified any such agreement. The White House did not return a request for comment on Tuesday’s report.
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
I feel sad to see this happening....

Are we seeing the modern day "Unequal Treaty" happening in front of our eyes 80 years after modern China broke free from 300 years of national shame.

A normal negotiation involves both parties gain some and lose some. Party A gain some in area 1 while lose some in area 2. Conversely, party B gain some in area 2 while lose some in area 1. If party A is much bigger than party B, then party B will lose more and gain less.

But either way, both party will gain something.

If we use the beginning of Trump as the starting point, and fast forward to today, I honestly did not see anything China had gained.

I see China is going to buy more US goods, allows more US companies to control China's companies, passes IP legislation to allow more profit for US companies, while US is busying kidnap China national for additional bargaining chip. All this just for delaying of punishment of tariff for 90 days.

I am still not seeing what concession US had made.

If this is not "Unequal Treaty" in the making, I don't know what it is.

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Western media hates Trump and they don't want to give him any credit. But I wish they can start to call this for what it is. Trump is about to force President Xi to make a modern day "Unequal Treaty".

I know there is no way President Xi can be criticized in China. But history book will record all this.
Don't worry; China's economy will still outgrow them, technology will outpace them, and whatever China needs to do to sustain these, we will do, by law or by practice only. It is China's skill to give an adversary what he wants and have it fall apart in his hands. As things stand, the trade gap is increasing. Even with lower tariffs, Chinese people are in such fervor, American sales cannot climb, but in America, Chinese goods do, because Chinese goods are life essentials to Americans while American goods are luxuries with alternatives to the Chinese. Technology-wise, no matter what is promised, the details of operations are in China and enforcement is with the Chinese courts; they're beating a head horse. To go loggerheads with someone can be done by anyone who loves his country and has a temper. But to continuously maneuver and manipulate a larger foe into a position where you can take advantage of him and grow yourself until you can defeat him outright takes skill.

Remember, winning for the US isn't selling soybeans and it isn't getting some auto tariffs reduced. Winning for the US is to reverse the trend of China's economy outgrowing the American economy and to stop Chinese technology from becoming more advanced than American technology. Right now, the US has realized that they are losing and want to force a change. China's job is to let them change, but put them in a different kind of losing position all the same. As long as China preserves the trend of its rise, that is a defeat for the US no matter how many "concessions" it cheers. For all their squirming, all they will have achieved will be setting themselves up to lose in a different way.

We're lucky to be alive in this period and to see this happen; if we were born a hundred years ago, we'd see nothing but despair for China and if we were born a hundred years later, we'd take everything for granted.
 
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Insignius

Junior Member
The West wants every Chinese citizen to enjoy personal freedoms as individuals do in the West, and for China to adopt fair business and trade practices. This is quite benevolent IMO.

Replace "personal freedoms" and "fair business and trade practices" with "the blessing of jesus" and "the salvation of one's eternal soul by the religious authorities that we control" and your statement is correct.

The West is very much the same aggressive religious crusader as thousand years ago. The god in whose name countries are invaded and people are oppressed and slaughtered has changed, that's all.

I agree. I would like China to become Western and democratic only to end up invading Saudi Arabia on charges of human rights violations. China can sever the Western oil supply and turn that country into a failed state so that the West gets nothing anymore, all for democracy and human rights.
I bet the West has nothing to say against that noble cause? After all, who needs to drive cars and have an economy if you have the awesome blessing of democracy-jesus that makes BigMacs fall from the skies for every woman and child?
 

Insignius

Junior Member
We're lucky to be alive in this period and to see this happen; if we were born a hundred years ago, we'd see nothing but despair for China and if we were born a hundred years later, we'd take everything for granted.

Couldnt have it said any better. I cannot imagine what sort of despair the people of that time have felt. Maybe not the average peasant, who was just trying to survive yet another famine, invasion and attempted genocide - but those who dreamt of peace and of a China that wasnt being stomped upon by literally everyone and their dogs. As such, the people like Lu Xun, Liang Qichao and also Mao Zedong deserve the highest praise. All their work and legacy, both intellectually and politically, were marked by a despair-induced rage against the fate of China. No matter the costs and no matter the mistakes on the way, China must rise again. And they achieved their goal.

All the West is doing nowadays is to make our generation feel that same all-powerful rage once again.

The West should know from their own experience that oppression and injustice invites rage and anger that will end up exploding one day. I bet the French King and his nobles regretted their centuries of insults and arrogance towards their subjects once they were heading to the guillotine. If they had treated their people a bit more nicer, they wouldnt have ended that way.
The West thinks that revolution and the toppling of an oppressive government is only being feared by authoritarian states like China and Russia... In reality, the Western hegemony is the one that should be scared the most. For that hegemony has oppressed and mistreated far more people and countries, and sentenced them to the fate of being the garbage dumps and whores of the white-western supremacists than all authoritarian states combined could have done so.
 

localizer

Colonel
Registered Member
The argument that engagement with China didn't work is just an excuse. The truth is we don't know if engagement has worked or not because China's GDP per capita is still not high income by WTO standards and no one knows at what GDP do countries become/have to become democratic.

The Western establishment didn't expect China to rise so quickly before the mindset of the people changed. They thought the people would revolt and become an India (a non-threat). Though they were smart enough to understand that China would have become a failed democracy and will get split into like 5 countries.
 

Insignius

Junior Member
"now I read"
(read this in your most pretentious and pretending-to-be-neutral tone possible:)

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So much for judical independence! Trump admits that he can just manipulate the judical process as he desires. As expected from the graceful God Emperor! Also, totally not an admission that it was an attempted black-mail from the start!

Exclusive: Trump says he could intervene in U.S. case against Huawei CFO

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2 MIN READ

U.S. President Donald Trump sits for an exclusive interview with Reuters journalists in the Oval Office at the White House in Washington, U.S. December 11, 2018. REUTERS/Jonathan Ernst

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. President Donald Trump said on Tuesday he would intervene in the Justice Department’s case against a top executive at China’s Huawei Technologies [HWT.UL] if it would serve national security interests or help close a trade deal with China.

Huawei’s Chief Financial Officer Meng Wanzhou was arrested in Canada Dec. 1 and has been accused by the United States of misleading multinational banks about Iran-linked transactions, putting the banks at risk of violating U.S. sanctions.




When asked if he would intervene with the Justice Department in her case, Trump said in an interview with Reuters: “Whatever’s good for this country, I would do.”

“If I think it’s good for what will be certainly the largest trade deal ever made – which is a very important thing – what’s good for national security – I would certainly intervene if I thought it was necessary,” Trump said.




A Canadian court on Tuesday granted Meng bail while she awaits a hearing for extradition to the United States, a move that could help placate Chinese officials angered by her arrest.

Trump also said the White House has spoken with the Justice Department about the case, as well as Chinese officials.

“They have not called me yet. They are talking to my people. But they have not called me yet,” he said when asked if he has spoken to Chinese President Xi Jinping about the case.


Reporting by Jeff Mason and Steve Holland; Editing by Bill Rigby


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SteelBird

Colonel
How do you interpret this sentence? It sounds to me that they are using her as a chip for trade talk.
"If I think it's good for what will be certainly the largest trade deal ever made -— which is a very important thing — what's good for national security — I would certainly intervene if I thought it was necessary," Trump told Reuters.
 
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