Trade War with China

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The US has defamed China with unfair trade accusations and it's a distortion of the truth to say China has been taking advantage of the US; there's no legal ground for the US to unilaterally start a trade war against China, says the country's Ministry of Commerce

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Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
I find it interesting the different attitude that the German and US take in response to China rise
The German has no problem adjusting even benefiting from China rise. I guess it is because the German are confidence that they can win the wit with China They have something real to offer "Technology" instead of financial manipulation. They figure out that as the China's pie grow larger in the future why not take a slice of it even only a slice. But a slice from bigger pie is better than bigger slice form small pie. And no BS about "Stealing IP"

Compare to Japan China is more open at similar economic development. At one time western share of Chinese auto market is 70%! Now is closer to 40-50% due to rise of Chinese auto industry But the market is way much bigger.

And see the German entered into this agreement with open eye knowing the Chinese partner will learn from this venture.But they are not afraid because they are confidence of their ability to stay ahead of the Chinese. via emperor

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China Wants High-Tech Cars. German Automakers Are Eager to Help.
By Jamie Condliffe July 11, 2018

A series of deals announced over the past week is designed to help German car manufacturers take a bigger slice of the world’s largest automobile market — and China develop its vision for the future of cars.

Beijing has been vocal about its desires for electric and driverless cars. It is introducing aggressive rules to ensure that many of the new cars put on its roads have electric or hybrid engines. And autonomous vehicles are a key part of its Made in China 2025 plan to dominate important new technologies.

To aid that effort, it has promised to open up its auto industry to foreign carmakers, a move that it has now doubled down on.

The flurry of announcements from German companies shows that they are keen to take advantage of the situation. Among the new partnerships are these:

■ Volkswagen plans to develop electric vehicles under its SEAT brand, as part of an agreement with the Anhui Jianghuai Automobile Group. It will also work with the FAW Group and the China Intelligent and Connected Vehicles Research Institute to develop autonomous cars.

■ BMW intends to increase the number of cars it produces annually at its two factories in China, which includes building electric Mini vehicles there in partnership with Great Wall Motor. It will also form a partnership with the Chinese technology company Baidu on autonomous cars.

■ Continental plans to work with Didi Chuxing, the Chinese ride-sharing company, to develop internet-connected electric vehicles.

■ Daimler will receive a license to test its driverless vehicles on Beijing’s roads, the first such permit issued to a foreign carmaker.

■ Bosch will work with NIO, the Chinese electric vehicle start-up, to build sensors and control systems for electric cars.

All this deal making makes sense for both sides.

German automakers hope that by increasing production in China they can also increase sales in that country, the world’s largest car market. (For BMW and Daimler, the production could replace cars they currently make in the United States for export to China, which are caught up in the escalating tariff battle between the countries.)


And China hopes this represents an opportunity to become an innovation hub for electric-and autonomous-car development, advancing its goal of becoming a technological powerhouse.

Against this backdrop, Tesla announced Tuesday that it would build a factory in Shanghai — its first outside the United States, and the first in China to be wholly owned by a foreign automaker. Tesla says the plant will eventually be able to produce 500,000 vehicles a year.

These developments are likely to displease President Trump. His administration’s trade war with China is focused in part on keeping technology out of Beijing’s hands.


But right now, much of the high-tech auto industry appears to be moving away from Mr. Trump, and toward China.
 
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Equation

Lieutenant General
I find it interesting the different attitude that the German and US take in response to China rise
The German has no problem adjusting even benefiting from China rise. I guess it is because the German are confidence that they can win the wit with China They have something real to offer "Technology" instead of financial manipulation. They figure out that as the China's pie grow larger in the future why not take a slice of it even only a slice. But a slice from bigger pie is better than bigger slice form small pie. And no BS about "Stealing IP"

Compare to Japan China is more open at similar economic development. At one time western share of Chinese auto market is 70%! Now is closer to 40-50% due to rise of Chinese auto industry But the market is way much bigger.

And see the German entered into this agreement with open eye knowing the Chinese partner will learn from this venture.But they are not afraid because they are confidence of their ability to stay ahead of the Chinese. via emperor

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

China Wants High-Tech Cars. German Automakers Are Eager to Help.
By Jamie Condliffe July 11, 2018

A series of deals announced over the past week is designed to help German car manufacturers take a bigger slice of the world’s largest automobile market — and China develop its vision for the future of cars.

Beijing has been vocal about its desires for electric and driverless cars. It is introducing aggressive rules to ensure that many of the new cars put on its roads have electric or hybrid engines. And autonomous vehicles are a key part of its Made in China 2025 plan to dominate important new technologies.

To aid that effort, it has promised to open up its auto industry to foreign carmakers, a move that it has now doubled down on.

The flurry of announcements from German companies shows that they are keen to take advantage of the situation. Among the new partnerships are these:

■ Volkswagen plans to develop electric vehicles under its SEAT brand, as part of an agreement with the Anhui Jianghuai Automobile Group. It will also work with the FAW Group and the China Intelligent and Connected Vehicles Research Institute to develop autonomous cars.

■ BMW intends to increase the number of cars it produces annually at its two factories in China, which includes building electric Mini vehicles there in partnership with Great Wall Motor. It will also form a partnership with the Chinese technology company Baidu on autonomous cars.

■ Continental plans to work with Didi Chuxing, the Chinese ride-sharing company, to develop internet-connected electric vehicles.

■ Daimler will receive a license to test its driverless vehicles on Beijing’s roads, the first such permit issued to a foreign carmaker.

■ Bosch will work with NIO, the Chinese electric vehicle start-up, to build sensors and control systems for electric cars.

All this deal making makes sense for both sides.

German automakers hope that by increasing production in China they can also increase sales in that country, the world’s largest car market. (For BMW and Daimler, the production could replace cars they currently make in the United States for export to China, which are caught up in the escalating tariff battle between the countries.)


And China hopes this represents an opportunity to become an innovation hub for electric-and autonomous-car development, advancing its goal of becoming a technological powerhouse.

Against this backdrop, Tesla announced Tuesday that it would build a factory in Shanghai — its first outside the United States, and the first in China to be wholly owned by a foreign automaker. Tesla says the plant will eventually be able to produce 500,000 vehicles a year.

These developments are likely to displease President Trump. His administration’s trade war with China is focused in part on keeping technology out of Beijing’s hands.


But right now, much of the high-tech auto industry appears to be moving away from Mr. Trump, and toward China.

Trump just keeps on arguing and fighting with German Chancellor Angela Merkle all the time and we will see more German and China deals of all kinds.:D
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
Trump even before running for President would complain about other countries having better airports than the US. Now he's acting on his complaints wanting China to hold back on advancing in technology. Let's call it what it is and it's simply white supremacist culture as policy being openly forced upon the world. The US would never buy Chinese technology so there would never be a trade imbalance in China's favor. The US would never sell something China doesn't have so if there's a problem with China not buying American, that's their own fault. Like I said before, this has nothing to do with trade disputes. Every time you hear Made in China 2025 it's the center of the problem in these trade disputes. How? They're spinning China will be stealing this technology in order to get people to support this action. Every now and then they will bring up how the West is not trying to stop China from developing technology. Why did they bring that up if they think China can only steal this technology? Their rationality is chaotic because these are just all spins and excuses to deflect away from the most obvious reason why and if they told the truth, it would be seen as racist. The only other country that has tested the West was Japan, their ally. Why would they be afraid of their ally advancing in technology where back in the 80s, Japan was seen as bigger threat to the West than the Soviet Union? What did Japan then and now China have in common? The demands Trump is making on China are about China committing forever to help maintain Western technological superiority by not advancing themselves. If China "volunteers" to hold back is a whole lot better looking to the world than forcing it like through a war they would have to start. That's not natural superiority. It's engineered. I remember some guy wrote a book about "The Soldier" romanticizing what it is to be a soldier. Yes he was only talking about US soldiers and their allies. He said soldiers are warriors and they love adversity. Well when you try to engineer your adversary to be weaker than you to assure victory, that's not adversity.
 

Anlsvrthng

Captain
Registered Member
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180613_semi_500.png


It i a bit early, but as it looks like China spending as more as USA for the semi fabs, and planning to increase the spending dramatically.

However it can be a bit miss-leading, one of the mayor capital item in the semi fabs is the building /air filtering, and it means once a business invested into it the equipment replenishment become small money.

But anyway, China wants to close the IC capacity gap , and the US doesn't like it.
 

Red Moon

Junior Member
What do expect from a society where there are people who actually label panda bears as communist? If China found the cure to cancer, you better believe there will be people who want to prevent the cure being used just because their society wasn't the one to discover it. Chuck Norris is a Republican. Republicans in general are against stem cell research and treatment. Chuck Norris' wife suffered some mishap in a surgery in the US and where is Chuck Norris' wife getting the stem cell treatment needed in her recovery?

That's beautiful!
 

Red Moon

Junior Member
Trump is very unpredictable and he can change his opinions 180 degrees in a matter of hours ... somebody (or group of people) could make billions of dollars in FX trading or Stock market or commodity trading ...... all done online ..... nobody knows who done it
Yes, if you know what the next tweet will be, you can become an instant millionaire.
 
now I read
China's MOC issues statement on U.S. Section 301 investigation
Xinhua| 2018-07-13 00:40:35
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China's Ministry of Commerce (MOC) released a statement Thursday regarding the Statement by the U.S. Trade Representative on Section 301 Action released on July 10.

The following is the full text of the statement.

I. The slander of the United States against China about gaining extra advantage through unfair trade practice is a distortion of facts and hence is groundless.

For the purpose of meeting its political need at home and containing China, the U.S. side produced a whole set of policy logics that distorted the truth of China-U.S. economic and trade relations. As a matter of fact, underlying problems in the American economy and society are purely caused by domestic, structural reasons in the United States. The success of the Chinese economy has never been a success of practicing mercantilism outside China or the success of practicing the so-called state capitalism. Rather it is a success of the commitment to market-oriented reform and continuous opening-up. First, China-U.S. trade imbalance. The U.S. side claims that it has massive trade deficit with China, but its number is over estimated, and the main reason for the deficit does not lie on the Chinese side. Rather it is because saving rate in the United States remains low, the U.S. dollar serves as international reserve currency, and the two countries differ in industrial competitiveness and international division of labor. Besides, the United States, due to its cold-war mentality, imposes restrictions on the export of hi-tech products which has comparative advantage. Second, the so-called theft of intellectual property. The Chinese government already put in place a full-fledged legal system to protect intellectual property rights, allowed judicial system to play a leading role in IPR protection, and promoted the establishment of IPR courts and dedicated IPR tribunals. In 2017, China paid 28.6 billion U.S. dollars worth of IPR royalty, a 15-fold increase from 2001 when China joined the World Trade Organization. Third, the so-call "forced technology transfer". The Chinese government did not make this kind of request to foreign companies, and cooperation between Chinese and foreign companies in technology and other economic and trade field is contract behavior purely based on voluntary principle. Both sides have reaped huge benefit from the cooperation over the years. Fourth, "Made in China 2025" and other industrial policies. Under market economy conditions, these policies implemented by the Chinese government are guiding documents in nature, and are open to all foreign-funded companies. The irony is that the country providing massive trade subsidy in agriculture and manufacturing happens to be the United States itself.

II. The United States' accusations that China neglects differences in trade and has not taken active measures are not true.

The United States claims that it has "patiently urged China" and that China ignored the U.S. request, but the truth is that trade differences have always been an important issue to China, who has been promoting the resolution of differences through dialogue and consultations with maximum sincerity and patience, with the hope to protect China-U.S. trade and economic cooperation, satisfy the growing needs for a better life of the Chinese people, and promote quality growth of the Chinese economy. From February to June this year alone, China engaged in four rounds of high-level economic talks with the United States, and has announced the China-U.S. Joint Statement with important consensus reached on strengthening trade and economic cooperation and avoiding a trade war. But due to domestic politics, the United States has gone back on its words, brazenly abandoned the bilateral consensus, and insisted on fighting a trade war with China. China has done its utmost to prevent the escalation of trade frictions. The United States is fully responsible for the current situation.

III. The United States accused China's countermeasures have no international legal basis, but in fact it is the U.S. unilateral initiation of a trade war that has no international legal basis at all.

In August 2017, the United States unilaterally launched the Section 301 investigation against China despite opposition from China and the international community. The United States released a Section 301 investigation report in March 2018 and imposed 25 percent tariff on 34 billion U.S. dollars of Chinese exports to the United States on July 6 in disregard of 91-percent opposition in the comments it received. On July 11, the United States further escalated the situation by announcing a tariff list of Chinese products worth 200 billion U.S. dollars. Domestically, the 301 investigation runs counter to the U.S. President's Statement of Administrative Action approved by Congress; internationally, it has violated its commitment made in the resolution of the GATT trade dispute with the European Community in 1988. The tariffs are typical unilateralism, protectionism and trade bullying. They are a clear violation of the basic WTO principle of most-favored-nation treatment as well as the basic spirit and principles of international law.

IV. That China was forced to take counteractions is an inevitable choice to defend national interests and global interests, and is perfectly rightful, reasonable and lawful.

In facing repeated threats of a trade war by the United States, the Chinese government repeatedly stated its principled position of "not wanting a trade war, not being afraid of one, and having to fight one when necessary". The Chinese side insisted on not firing the first shot, and was forced into taking reciprocal countermeasures after the United States first started the trade war. China did this entirely for defending its national dignity and people's interests, defending the principles of free trade and the multilateral trading system, and defending the common interests of the countries across the world. The Chinese government has already taken the unilateralist actions of the United States to the Dispute Settlement Mechanism of the WTO. The Chinese government's measures, both bilateral and multilateral, to respond to the emergent situations resulting from the U.S. unilateral actions are in full compliance with the fundamental spirit and principles of international law.

V. The United States is not only launching a trade war with China, but also with the whole world, dragging the world economy into danger.

When the United States willfully exits from groups based on its own interests under the pretext of "American First", it becomes an enemy to all. It not only initiates the 301 investigation against China based on IPR, but also launches the 232 investigation against key global economies in the name of national security and creates trade frictions in steel, aluminum, automobile and other key industries. At present, many WTO members have already taken countermeasures against the United States and requested consultations with the United States under the WTO dispute settlement mechanism. It is fair to say that this largest trade war in the economic history launched by the United States is not a trade war between the United States and China, but a global trade war. Such U.S. practices will drag the world economy into the "cold war trap", "recession trap", "anti-contract trap" and "the trap of uncertainty", seriously worsen global economic and trade environment, destroy global industrial chain and value chain, hinder global economy recovery, trigger global market fluctuations and hurt the interests of numerous multinationals and average customers in the world.

VI. China will continue to firmly push ahead with reform and opening according to the plans and pace that are set, and work with the rest of the world to firmly uphold free trade and the multilateral trading system.

This year marks the 40th anniversary of China's reform and opening-up. Its high-speed economic growth in the past four decades hinged upon reform and opening-up, so will high-quality growth in the future. No matter how things change outside, the government of China will stay determined to let the market play a decisive role in resource allocation, protect property rights and intellectual property rights, give play to the major role of entrepreneurs, encourage competition and oppose monopoly, continue with opening-up, create an attractive business climate, provide solid support for economic globalization, safeguard international trade and economic system, and grow and prosper with all countries in the world that seek progress.
 

Anlsvrthng

Captain
Registered Member
US had more leverage against China ~20 years ago, when US-China trade (imports+exports) accounted as much as ~20% of China's GDP in year 2000.

Now, 20 years later, US has far less leverage than China compared to 20 years ago, with US-China trade only accounting for 4% of China's GDP in 2018.

The time for US to bully China is long past. US will probably incur retaliation from a more confident China that is less reliant on US as an export market compared to 20 years earlier.

REMEMBER, exports isn't everything. India is yet another +1 billion nation that is achieving 8-9% growth based on domestic consumption alone, so it is a myth that China can only rely on Western markets to fuel rapid growth. India is a prime example of domestic consumption led growth, and India is only 10 years behind China's GDP today at 7% annual growth.

The current level of international trade possible only because the USA running a trade deficit.

Without that the trade even between third countries ( like between Uganda and Uruguay ) would be fraction of the current level.

Just check the issues/roadblocks that example India /Russia facing to cover the S400 sale.

Of course this international system of dollars gives to the USA aristocracy the leverage to control the world : ) but it benefiting the masses little, or negatively.
 
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