Torpedos, are they still useful in a surface battle?

Re: Tropedos, are they still useful in a surface battle?

@ Lavi

If it was fired from a akula submarine the sound of the torpedo will mast the submarine itself.

The exiting speed of the torpedo is 50knots a hour and then it turns on the rocket engines. So i dont think sonar could pick it up that quickly.


**- Before anyone brings up the Shkval, it is not an anti ship weapon, it is a weapon designed to be launched when an enemy torpedo is bearing down at your own sub, a revenge weapon in a way.-**

A revenage weapon how?

Its a counter measure to destroy the other torpedo. You launch the torpedo at the bearing of the incoming torpedo so try destory it or move it off course.

But its main use is for a quick reaction againest a US submainre that is hard to detect using sonar. So if you detect one quickly and need to launch before it moves you use this.


Here is how the Sjkval works.



It creates a coating of bubbles around the torpedo that lessesn the friction when travelling through water. This is called "supercavitating".

It moves through the water without the water actually touching the torpedo

Regards,

Chinawhite

Re: Tropedos, are they still useful in a surface battle?

chinawhite said:

@ Lavi

If it was fired from a akula submarine the sound of the torpedo will mast the submarine itself.

The exiting speed of the torpedo is 50knots a hour and then it turns on the rocket engines. So i dont think sonar could pick it up that quickly.


**- Before anyone brings up the Shkval, it is not an anti ship weapon, it is a weapon designed to be launched when an enemy torpedo is bearing down at your own sub, a revenge weapon in a way.-**

A revenage weapon how?

Its a counter measure to destroy the other torpedo. You launch the torpedo at the bearing of the incoming torpedo so try destory it or move it off course.

But its main use is for a quick reaction againest a US submainre that is hard to detect using sonar. So if you detect one quickly and need to launch before it moves you use this.


Here is how the Sjkval works.

It creates a coating of bubbles around the torpedo that lessesn the friction when travelling through water. This is called "supercavitating".

It moves through the water without the water actually touching the torpedo

Regards,

Chinawhite

Click to expand...

The firing of the Skval will not mask the firing submarine. In fact it will betray its position.

At such speeds, turning would be a problem. Is this a stright running torpedo?

Re: Tropedos, are they still useful in a surface battle?

The Shkal is fired first at 50knots then after it is propelled by the rocket engine. Any information about if sonar can track a torpedo.

At tactical speeds US sonar operators cannot/very difficult to detect the akula submarie and if my assumtions about torpedo signitures is correct then it would be un-detectable.


Anway this has gone off-topic to the actaul thing i was answering. If the russian submaine fires the shkal at the other submarine it has a 80% chance of kiling it. Even if the other submarine detects it, it wouldn't have neough time to relay the location back to other submairines or planes


And yes the Shkal is a un-guided torpedo. the speed of the torpedo makes up for any disadvantage in manuverbility

Regards,

Chinawhite

Re: Tropedos, are they still useful in a surface battle?

I have never understood why people believe super-cavitating torpedoes to be some kind of super weapons! For a submarine, silence is everything. If you make a sound, you die (okay, a little simplistic, but basically this is what submariners think).

The revenge-part is that when you hear a torpedo coming towards your boat, you shoot a Shkval towards the place the torpedo came from.

The location of subs are not a very exact science, you conduct something called TMA, target motion analysis, based on where you know the target has been. Usually, you only have bearings, meaning you will need to figure out the distance, speed and range in order to get a firing solution.

Yes, the Akula is hard to detect, although both 688i and Seawolf are even harder, which is exactly why a subskipper onboard probably wouldn't waste the advantages this gives for firing a Shkval when a ordinary torpedo can do the job just as effectively.

And yes, torpedoes can be tracked by submarine sonars.

Re: Tropedos, are they still useful in a surface battle?

I believe the noise level of Akula is 110 to 115 db, whereas the latest American subs have noise level of 95 db. There lies the difference.

Re: Tropedos, are they still useful in a surface battle?

you mean the system that is more or less ineffective against half the world's torpedos because they're wake homing?

Re: Tropedos, are they still useful in a surface battle?

I believe modern SONAR can detect torpedos. And usually, a submarine does not get within 10 km of a major surface fleet. Torpedos go at speeds of around 40 knots. In conclusion: modern ships can dodge a moderate number of torpedos, but huge numbers of torpedos could do much damage to a surface fleet. Plus, they would disrupt the formation of the surface fleet dramatically, making it easier for the opposing sides's surface fleet to destroy.

Re: Tropedos, are they still useful in a surface battle?

FriedRiceNSpice said:

I believe modern SONAR can detect torpedos. And usually, a submarine does not get within 10 km of a major surface fleet. Torpedos go at speeds of around 40 knots. In conclusion: modern ships can dodge a moderate number of torpedos, but huge numbers of torpedos could do much damage to a surface fleet. Plus, they would disrupt the formation of the surface fleet dramatically, making it easier for the opposing sides's surface fleet to destroy.

Click to expand...

Thanks to modern data link, the ships of a CSG can be hundreds of miles apart. They do not need to be within the vicinity of the carrier. Although the USN always has an Aegis ship near the carrier at all times.

Torpedoes just do not have the range and speed of a anti-ship missile.

Re: Tropedos, are they still useful in a surface battle?

The advantage of the torpedo resembles in a way a gun more than missile. It's main advantage it that is very hard to destroy, so it needs to be dodged.

Re: Tropedos, are they still useful in a surface battle?

So little as opening torpdeo outer doors is all it takes for your submarine to betray itself, however fireing a torpedo will not betray a submarines psition, only its bearing.