Tired of foreign domination of its telecom market share China...

Europe has standardized on GSM. So there is no "competition" here. Despite the technological advantages of CDMA, the GSM networks I've experienced in Europe and even in SEA can put all sorts of networks in the US to shame. We're talking about clear access even in underground garages and subways. There is something truly beneficial about standardization and it shows.

As for "tiny professional elite", Motorola sold over 8 million MotoMing smartphones in China over the course of a year. That's not bad. That's quite good. The MotoMing is a touch screen device running on Linux.

Image is image but that's the growth market. The straightforward, easy to use market is already filled and saturated. The youth is ambitious, they tend to buy the phones which is not only cool but pertains or points to a lifestyle they dream. If that is to be a mobile professional yuppie financial manager, so be it. That's why Blackberries are selling these days---a business corporate phone---even to consumers in the US.

I was really referring to the competition between CDMA2000 and w-CDMA, one American, one European. They just couldn't agree on one standard, and China would like to disagree with them both!

For the dropped calls you need to experience that in a high density residential zone in Chongqing. It's not so much about range and coverage, it's about how many simultaneous conversations you can carry in a cell before you start cutting people off.


I don't know if you watch Bill Maher, but I agree with one question he asked tonight: why does everything always have to grow? For a poor country, China's growing obsession with these gadgets sucks blood for me. People pay good money on these things for some crass show-off, not to grow themselves.

Well, W-CDMA is also in the USA, supported by AT&T. What's being nationalistic there? W-CDMA is now also the standard in Japan. The Japanese are very proud of their technological capability but saw no need to reinvent the wheel. They actually did before with their telecom standard and it turned out to be a big mistake. With the 2nd generation, they abandoned their own proprietary protocols, which wasn't in any way a technological failure, and went GSM.

China carefully chooses what to adopt from foreign sources and what to grow on their own. For quite a long time, they have been making the right decisions. Like Deng said, who cares if its a white cat or a black cat so long it eats mice.

Well not here, someone is trying to insist it has to be a gray cat. Looking at the responses among people in the Chinese telecom and internet industry, they're not all that happy about it. In any case, Chinese telecom companies are now rushing to buy W-CDMA and CDMA-2000 equipment.

Are people wasting their time buying smartphones? Perhaps. But there is always criticism about people buying PCs that are too powerful, or why we are willing to pay for faster internet bandwidth instead of sticking with a phone modem. Its easy to criticize from the outside, but not if you're in the driver's seat where you are using these tools.

I can imagine how internet access on a 3G network can benefit a Chinese businessman with a small business. Any man with a small business. He can check his email, his bank account, he can shop for things online compare prices, and buy things cheaper. That alone can bring about savings. All amounts to better human productivity. Better phones have much better contacts management, such as synching with your email and contact software on your PC. They can receive documents via email on the phone and open up attachments in Power Point, Adobe PDF, Microsoft Word and Excel format.

well, this report is quite alot of BS tbh, which standard is more advanced and better is up to argument, it's far from clear as this report would suggest.And if foriegn handset maker doesn't include this standard in thier handset while the domestic producer of mobile phones does, it will only give the domestic producers a big edge, at least in the chinese domestic market, which is the main market for most domestic producers anyway, and not to speak of it is also the largest market in the world as well.

Once in motion, there will be policy changes and benifits to compensate any problems for China Mobile which adopt the TC-SCDMA.
As for Japan's example, well, Japan is NOT the main producer nor the main market of telecommunication product in the world today, they overstreatched them self, but I don't think china is, it's trying to set up it's own standards, it's own rule of the game, you can play the game well like the japanese, but in the end it's the rule maker of the game that will win.

crobato said:

Well, W-CDMA is also in the USA, supported by AT&T. What's being nationalistic there?

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w-cdma and cdma2000 are both in china as well. Does that tell you td-scdma IS'NT nationalistic? The control over w-cdma vs cmda2000 are divided along geopolitical lines, you can't fail to see that. When they talk about "european identity" they make it out like some kind of noble cause, but Chinese aren't supposed to say we support China? Americans don't need to play up nationalism when they're winning, but look what happened when Japan outsold their cars! The west doesn't have nationalism, they only have national interest; the east have no national interests, only fervent nationalism--according to westerners, of course!

China carefully chooses what to adopt from foreign sources and what to grow on their own. For quite a long time, they have been making the right decisions. Like Deng said, who cares if its a white cat or a black cat so long it eats mice.

Well not here, someone is trying to insist it has to be a gray cat. Looking at the responses among people in the Chinese telecom and internet industry, they're not all that happy about it. In any case, Chinese telecom companies are now rushing to buy W-CDMA and CDMA-2000 equipment.

Click to expand...

There will always be complainers and short-sightedness, which sometimes people confuse with pragmatism. Pragmatism means do what works, not just for tomorrow, but also for the longer run.

Are people wasting their time buying smartphones? Perhaps. But there is always criticism about people buying PCs that are too powerful, or why we are willing to pay for faster internet bandwidth instead of sticking with a phone modem. Its easy to criticize from the outside, but not if you're in the driver's seat where you are using these tools.

I can imagine how internet access on a 3G network can benefit a Chinese businessman with a small business. Any man with a small business. He can check his email, his bank account, he can shop for things online compare prices, and buy things cheaper. That alone can bring about savings. All amounts to better human productivity. Better phones have much better contacts management, such as synching with your email and contact software on your PC. They can receive documents via email on the phone and open up attachments in Power Point, Adobe PDF, Microsoft Word and Excel format.

Click to expand...

I agree with you about the potentials of mobile internet access. But that is not why people buy the touch screen phones--a real data device needs a keyboard!

well, this report is quite alot of BS tbh, which standard is more advanced and better is up to argument, it's far from clear as this report would suggest.And if foriegn handset maker doesn't include this standard in thier handset while the domestic producer of mobile phones does, it will only give the domestic producers a big edge, at least in the chinese domestic market, which is the main market for most domestic producers anyway, and not to speak of it is also the largest market in the world as well.

Once in motion, there will be policy changes and benifits to compensate any problems for China Mobile which adopt the TC-SCDMA.
As for Japan's example, well, Japan is NOT the main producer nor the main market of telecommunication product in the world today, they overstreatched them self, but I don't think china is, it's trying to set up it's own standards, it's own rule of the game, you can play the game well like the japanese, but in the end it's the rule maker of the game that will win.

Click to expand...

Well said. I do believe the government will be able to overcome the burdens having the 3rd standard.

ChinaSoldier said:

w-cdma and cdma2000 are both in china as well. Does that tell you td-scdma IS'NT nationalistic? The control over w-cdma vs cmda2000 are divided along geopolitical lines, you can't fail to see that. When they talk about "european identity" they make it out like some kind of noble cause, but Chinese aren't supposed to say we support China? Americans don't need to play up nationalism when they're winning, but look what happened when Japan outsold their cars! The west doesn't have nationalism, they only have national interest; the east have no national interests, only fervent nationalism--according to westerners, of course!

Click to expand...

There isn't anything geopolitical about the control over W-CDMA vs. CDMA-2000. In fact, with IT being geopolitical means squat. This is a battle of company against company, standards vs. standards, not nation vs. nation. The term China vs. West means nothing here. Its like Apple vs. Microsoft, IBM vs. Sun, GSM vs. CDMA, Windows vs. Linux, Xbox vs. PS3, Toyota vs. GM. This is about company dominance. A country becomes another battlefield.

There will always be complainers and short-sightedness, which sometimes people confuse with pragmatism. Pragmatism means do what works, not just for tomorrow, but also for the longer run.

Click to expand...

Except that TD-SCDMA isn't working as it should, and even China Mobile was less than enthusiastic about it. Maybe the bugs will eventually be worked out, but they already worked out the issues on the W-CDMA and CDMA-2000 years ago.

I agree with you about the potentials of mobile internet access. But that is not why people buy the touch screen phones--a real data device needs a keyboard!

Click to expand...

My usage of touch screen devices disagree with you completely. The only time you need a real keyboard is when you involve lots of text entry. That's not an issue with many smartphones and pdas that offer a qwerty keyboard.

With China its something else. As MotoMing has demonstrated, you can get by with a touch screen doing hand writing recognition as you draw the characters.

Well said. I do believe the government will be able to overcome the burdens having the 3rd standard.

Click to expand...

They're likely to, but it still does not represent the most optimal and efficient route to take.

Qualcomm says it doesn't need Nokia patents
In the latest twist to the companies' legal battle, Qualcomm threatens to forbid Nokia from using its patents, claiming it doesn't use any of Nokia's patents in the first place

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If you don't have your own IP, you have no ammunition for these patent wars.

Patent royalty fees actually amount to very little of the total cost of the phone. It does not appear that TD-SCDMA isn't going to escape paying royalty payments to Qualcomm either, and please note all those patents will expire anyway. Oh and please note that Qualcomm is a member of the TD-SCDMA association.

A greater portion of the phone's cost goes into the processors and the chipsets. There is no need to source them from foreign ones if you have your own local processors for example. Consumers aren't going to care where the processors are coming from.

Another portion of the phone's cost goes to the licensing of the OS. This is a particularly issue with Windows Mobile and Symbion, but not if the OS is open sourced like Linux or its variants like Android. As a note, Nokia has already placed Symbion into an open foundation and will make it open source, so that just leaves you with Windows Mobile, which isn't doing good in China anyway, despite Microsoft's efforts to push it in that region. Actually WM's share of the market in China may have withered even more in the past year or so.

The OS share in China's smartphone market is similar to Japan's, in the context that Symbion dominates much of it, then a fraction goes to Linux. Windows Mobile takes up only a tiny sliver. This is not like the US market where over 40% is taken by RIM, aka Blackberry, another 20 to 25% by Apple's iPhone, then low teens for all the Windows Mobile phones, and single digits for Palm and Nokia or Symbion phones.

The Chinese government didn't allow 3G in China until TD-SCDMA can be public. It has left the 3G infrastructure years behind in China compared to the rest of the world even though Chinese telecom companies like ZTE and Huawei are busy building 3G networks in other countries. They're leapfrogging to 4G anyway.

Now Chinese telecom companies seem to be saying, lets just leap frog the whole thing.



China Mobile To Deploy First 4G Commercial Trial Network In Shanghai In 2010
March 6, 2009


According to an insider from China Mobile, the company will deploy its first TD-LTE trial network in Shanghai and will bring it into trial operation during the 2010 Shanghai World Expo.

This is also China Mobile's first 4G commercial trial network.

With coverage of 15 hectares, the 2010 Shanghai World Expo Site has many permanent buildings, including China Pavilion, Theme Pavilion, Expo Performance Center, Expo Center and Expo Axis, as well as temporary buildings and facilities. During the 184 days World Expo, more than 20,000 cultural activities will be held in the site and many international tourists will visit the site, which provide a good opportunity for the display of the TD-LTE technology.

At present, TD-LTE is one of the 4G standards that has a good outlook in China. According to the plan of China Mobile, TD-LTE is the future direction for its development. The company is currently managing the TD-SCDMA services for its 3G business. The international recognized definition for 4G is those services which can reach a downlink rate of 100 megabytes per second. Prior to this, Chinese telecommunications equipment provider Datang and Potevio have deployed their TD-LTE equipment with a downlink rate of 100 megabytes per second and an uplink rate of 50 megabytes per second in the Barcelona Mobile World Congress.

In October 2008, Datang Mobile and China Mobile jointly launched the industry's first TD-LTE service. In September 2008, Potevio launched its first TD-LTE model system. The company plans to launch its first commercial model equipment in the third quarter of 2009 and the commercial equipment are expected to be launched in March 2010.

First what is TD-LTE? LTE stands for Long Term Evolution and this acronym applies to 4G networks. The standards for 4G is now appearing including FDD-LTE or Frequency Division Duplex. As expected, TD-LTE stands for Time Division.

Basically, TD-LTE turns TD-SCDMA into a 4G network.

Now Nokia is responding to China Mobile's TD-LTE move. This suggests the game changer for China isn't on TD-SCDMA but TD-LTE.



Nokia Siemens Networks drives development of TD-LTE PDF | Print | E-mail
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Thursday, 05 March 2009 16:38

Following the industry’s first lab based TD-LTE demonstrations last year R&D in Hangzhou is being ramped up to support its commercial roll-out

Nokia Siemens Networks is gearing up for the launch of next generation Time Division Duplex Long Term Evolution (TD-LTE) technology in China. Following the industry’s first successful lab demonstrations conducted with leading operators in Germany last year, the company has further expanded its team in Hangzhou, China, to support the commercial roll out of TD-LTE.

Nokia Siemens Networks’ Hangzhou R&D center plays a pivotal role for the company. As well as driving innovation across GSM/EDGE, WCDMA/HSPA, LTE, I- HSPA and WiMAX technologies, Hangzhou’s 1,000 strong R&D team is being expanded to focus on supporting China’s home-grown TD-LTE technology through 2009. The company has been cooperating with leading operators in China and Europe to evaluate the performance of TD-LTE technology under various deployment situations and will continue this work with more advanced over the air tests and finally field trials in a pre-commercial multi-cell test network.

The TD-LTE first phase tests were completed in November last year and demonstrated the high throughput performance, in particular peak data rates and low latencies, of TD-LTE under various channel conditions as well as the robustness of the technology. The tests confirm that users will truly enjoy the superior mobile broadband experience promised by the LTE standard even in unpaired frequency spectrum.

“TD-LTE can catapult China to advanced next generation mobile broadband services and we are committed to putting significant resources to support its development and deployment,” said Marc Rouanne, head of the company’s Radio Access business. “In addition to the significant boost in ground resources, our fast rollout service capability and experiences in the region will help us in delivering cost efficient and high quality next generation mobile broadband networks to the benefit of operators and end users.”

Nokia Siemens Networks has played a pioneering role in China’s home grown technology standard TD-SCDMA and has developed a well proven network solution for this technology. In addition, it provides comprehensive delivery capability in related network planning, construction and optimization projects. The company’s expertise in TDD technology gained through deploying credible and competitive TD-SCDMA solutions in China, coupled with our global leadership in LTE puts us in an extremely advantageous position in the region.


Motorola as well.



Motorola Reinforces Commitment to TD-LTE

BEIJING, Feb 24, 2009 /PRNewswire-FirstCall via COMTEX/ --

Company: Motorola, Inc. (MOT)

Motorola, Inc., (NYSE: MOT) announced today its progress on Time Division Duplex Long-Term Evolution (TD-LTE) commercialization. Motorola will collaborate with operators on TD-LTE trials to be conducted during 2009. This further demonstrates Motorola's commitment to TD-LTE in order to meet the future needs of operators in China, as well as operators around the world with TDD spectrum and help accelerate the delivery of the personal mobile media experiences globally.

As one of the leaders in LTE RAN contributions, Motorola supports both TD-LTE and Frequency Division Duplex LTE (FDD-LTE). Motorola is planning an LTE ecosystem to support the early deployments from Q4 2009 to mid-2010.