The World's 4th, 4.5 & 5th Generation Fighters
- Thread starter Semi-Lobster
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Re: Russian fifth generation fighter
my first thought was the guy is prolly an anti-china troll
my first thought was the guy is prolly an anti-china troll
Harley-One
Banned Idiot
This much I'll say: Though I'm not trying to suggest the Raptor is invincible as it is suggested that it can now be picked up by phased array radar; the T-50 on the other hand sure as the heck is apples and oranges as compared to the Raptor. Also, I doubt if the appointments in it is as lavish as that of the Raptor, as Americans are synonymous for high technology. The exhausts in itself is totally exposed. I for one will wait and see what verdict the experts will have on it before I give it a score of my own...
I don't see that Area 51/Groom Lake [Wow!] shock and awe theme in it as does the Raptor. I see something in the league as that of the Typhoon and the Rafale but what do I know about these state of the arts fighters these days.
That's an utterly unfair statement. Everyone's just in a [CSI mode] of what to really make this aircraft and trying to make some sense of it. If my recollection is not off, this joint project was inked sometime in '04 time frame. Six years is pretty speedy de gonzala for something as advanced as the Raptor to make it from a CAD drawing to working specimen my opinion. Something has to give there.
actually, i kinda think this t-50 is a rush job and that it is in fact not quite ready to enter this stage of development just yet. but, the pressure given by the statement made by this chinese airforce general on the chinese forth gen ac aired on cctv recently gave the pak fa coordinator no choice in the matter but to rush the project through. we have to remember, if this was purely a russian thingy, they would have no need to rush. they would likely be as secretive about it as the chinese and americans are with these area 51 black projects...
if i'm not off, sideways, this is none other but the mca...
nonsense. the facts are there for all to see. the engine exhaust are exposed like the su-27/30 giving out heat signature. and yes, come to think of it, it does look mca'sh so the mca isn't a bad design after all cos this plane does look pretty cool though everything else is hanging in the air this moment...
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Re: Russian fifth generation fighter
First, your claim that the last REAL Chinese designed aircraft is the
Shenyang J-8 is beyond absurd. J-8 design was freezed in 1980s, do you honestly believe China has been sitting on its hands in the past 3 decades given its great economic and technological achievements? Oh please don´t bother to argue the J10 was designed by Isrealis or Russians, even they didn´t try to claim the credit.
Second the reason why it take more than 2 decades for US airforce to field F-22 Raptor and even longer for Russians to develop its 5th gen fighter should largely be attributed to the collapse of Soviet. Should Soviet didn´t collapse and cold war continued through 1990s, F-22 Raptor would have been inducted much earlier, so would Soviet´s 5th gen fighter. F-22 Raptor is a typical cold-war era project.
Third , for your information, the next gen aircraft developed by China is called 4th gen fighter. Ironically, you are right to claim after 20-25 years Chian will field its fifth gen fighter.
First, your claim that the last REAL Chinese designed aircraft is the
Shenyang J-8 is beyond absurd. J-8 design was freezed in 1980s, do you honestly believe China has been sitting on its hands in the past 3 decades given its great economic and technological achievements? Oh please don´t bother to argue the J10 was designed by Isrealis or Russians, even they didn´t try to claim the credit.
Second the reason why it take more than 2 decades for US airforce to field F-22 Raptor and even longer for Russians to develop its 5th gen fighter should largely be attributed to the collapse of Soviet. Should Soviet didn´t collapse and cold war continued through 1990s, F-22 Raptor would have been inducted much earlier, so would Soviet´s 5th gen fighter. F-22 Raptor is a typical cold-war era project.
Third , for your information, the next gen aircraft developed by China is called 4th gen fighter. Ironically, you are right to claim after 20-25 years Chian will field its fifth gen fighter.
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Re: Russian fifth generation fighter
If u think most people here are pro-China. Why do u bother to come?
Can u read the URL China Defence Forum | Military Air Force Army Navy Missiles Defense May u will feel more at home in
Not to forget ABM, ASAT and beidou GPS...
If u think most people here are pro-China. Why do u bother to come?
Can u read the URL China Defence Forum | Military Air Force Army Navy Missiles Defense May u will feel more at home in
Not to forget ABM, ASAT and beidou GPS...
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Harley-One
Banned Idiot
Here's how I look at the J-7:
Many countries, such as Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Africa, still find their latest [almost optional item equipped, low maintenance, and reliable J-7's] something to chest thump and proud to brag about. And, [at USD 5 to 6 million a pop], where can anyone get something that's this lavish and at such a bargain basement price listed?
The J-7's quantitative (numerical) strategy over the qualitative (technology based) strategy of western aircraft's had served China well over the years as the J-7 had kept the Americans and Japan well at bay with the J-7 through thick and thin.
It's goes to the point that during [the 90's Taiwan Straight Missile Crises] that it was suggested that J-7's (squadrons of them) was what Beijing had ordered [to shadow and buzz the the US's carrier groups which Clinton thrown at our faces] -- an incident which had never been reported by the West and only declassified by the PLAN just last year in back page small prints.
I had always contended that the Chinese J-7 is a timeless goddess of the world of the jet fighters and, with its dime a dozen per unit cost, it qualifies as [China's J-7 firewall] against any/all hostile forces directed China's way and, if and when [this firewall is ever to be breached], your newer more technology based fighters such as the J-10, J-11 and JH-7's starts to kick in...
Therefore, this J-7 of beast of the fighter jet will IMHO stay with us for some times to come yet, and it will remain one of our more principle of export items if not our principle domestic market preferential specimens.
:nana:
That indeed a very very good and honest question. Yes, Why? Why not the BR room? Why not the Airforces Monthly's Keyboard where, as long as you are not pro Chinese, that you are welcomed and well protected? Why not the Free Republic site where you can crap the Chinese to your heart's contend and no one will challenge you?
Jeezz, my experience is that they love to compete with us on every front and they love to come to Chinese boards to do it, too, don't they? Strange creatures these none Chinese guys :nono::nono::nono::nono: aren't they?
Golly, if it was the Americans they are trying to show their smarts, I definitely would have tipped my hat to them and I definitely would have given them the credit they are due, but to compete with us??? That amounts to nothing but a face saving job...
Strange creatures these people who tries to [show off] themselves in Chinese sites... I mean do we go to the BR room and/or likes to brag and to show off our wares??? Not that I know of that's for sure... the difference between apples and oranges isn't it???
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Roger604
Senior Member
Re: Russian fifth generation fighter
On the whole, the Su-50 is not bad. The fuselage, the engines and the nose looks like a Flanker, the wing's "delta-like" conventional layout looks a cross between F-22 and FB-22, and the vertical stabilizers look like YF-23.
Its chief strength is its role: It is big, long-ranged and the Flanker style separated engines allow for bigger weapons bay in the middle ideal for long-range ground strike missions against an integrated air defense. If Russia can put AL-41 in there, it may even have better flight performance than F-22.
It carries on the Sukhoi tradition of maneuverable, agile aircraft. This area should be comparable to F-22, J-10, Eurofighter.
It has an IRST, a holographic HUD and use of composites. Most likely its avionics will be an evolution beyond the Su-35BM. Comparable to J-10B but less advanced than F-22.
Its chief weakness is that it's not nearly as stealthy as F-22. It is unlikely to be as stealthy as F-35. This is evident just from the airframe. It's more stealthy than Eurofighter and Rafale though.
From the rear, it probably isn't stealthy at all.
But right now it looks like many of the subsystems are not ready. This is a flight test early in the development process. It more like the YF-22 and YF-23 in the 90's, or like the Su-47 Berkut technology demonstrator. This thing probably won't fully enter service until 2020.
But the Russians are showing it now. And they being very transparent about it, showing this on its maiden flight. This stands in contrast to China. Russia feels like it needs to make a point, evidently.
So when China's J-20 has its maiden flight "soon," it will already be the third sibling -- it will have the F-22 and the Su-50 ahead of it. But I think the J-20's maiden flight will be different as the prototype will have more subsystems and be closer to the production version. In the end, I think J-20 will enter service much sooner than Su-50.
It would be a good idea for China to also develop something like Su-50 in the strike role to complement J-20.
On the whole, the Su-50 is not bad. The fuselage, the engines and the nose looks like a Flanker, the wing's "delta-like" conventional layout looks a cross between F-22 and FB-22, and the vertical stabilizers look like YF-23.
Its chief strength is its role: It is big, long-ranged and the Flanker style separated engines allow for bigger weapons bay in the middle ideal for long-range ground strike missions against an integrated air defense. If Russia can put AL-41 in there, it may even have better flight performance than F-22.
It carries on the Sukhoi tradition of maneuverable, agile aircraft. This area should be comparable to F-22, J-10, Eurofighter.
It has an IRST, a holographic HUD and use of composites. Most likely its avionics will be an evolution beyond the Su-35BM. Comparable to J-10B but less advanced than F-22.
Its chief weakness is that it's not nearly as stealthy as F-22. It is unlikely to be as stealthy as F-35. This is evident just from the airframe. It's more stealthy than Eurofighter and Rafale though.
From the rear, it probably isn't stealthy at all.
But right now it looks like many of the subsystems are not ready. This is a flight test early in the development process. It more like the YF-22 and YF-23 in the 90's, or like the Su-47 Berkut technology demonstrator. This thing probably won't fully enter service until 2020.
But the Russians are showing it now. And they being very transparent about it, showing this on its maiden flight. This stands in contrast to China. Russia feels like it needs to make a point, evidently.
So when China's J-20 has its maiden flight "soon," it will already be the third sibling -- it will have the F-22 and the Su-50 ahead of it. But I think the J-20's maiden flight will be different as the prototype will have more subsystems and be closer to the production version. In the end, I think J-20 will enter service much sooner than Su-50.
It would be a good idea for China to also develop something like Su-50 in the strike role to complement J-20.
Vlad Plasmius
Junior Member
Re: Russian fifth generation fighter
Wow, from that picture it is clear this is not nearly as stealthy as F-22 or F-35. The way the cockpit and fuselage pop up in other pictures and how the engines pop out from the bottom here is very unstealthy. F-22 and F-35 have more blended designs.
Wow, from that picture it is clear this is not nearly as stealthy as F-22 or F-35. The way the cockpit and fuselage pop up in other pictures and how the engines pop out from the bottom here is very unstealthy. F-22 and F-35 have more blended designs.
Hyperwarp
Captain
Re: Russian fifth generation fighter
Well the Russian's have said The T-50 is going to more conservative that the F-22, and they probably meant the stealth aspect and probably the supercruise aspect as well. But it'll be interesting to see how it compares to the F-35 especially from the frontal aspect.
Off-course, don't forget this is still a PROTOTYPE, and not to mention the 1st flying Prototype. She will go through some changes, maybe a lot of changes before entering service.
F-22 manufacturing quality is quite impressive. Don't think there is any rival here. Compared to the F-35?
T-50 :
F-35 :
From the Russian observers at AFM, the quality of the T-50 is much better than any previous Russian plane.
Well the Russian's have said The T-50 is going to more conservative that the F-22, and they probably meant the stealth aspect and probably the supercruise aspect as well. But it'll be interesting to see how it compares to the F-35 especially from the frontal aspect.
Off-course, don't forget this is still a PROTOTYPE, and not to mention the 1st flying Prototype. She will go through some changes, maybe a lot of changes before entering service.
F-22 manufacturing quality is quite impressive. Don't think there is any rival here. Compared to the F-35?
T-50 :
F-35 :
From the Russian observers at AFM, the quality of the T-50 is much better than any previous Russian plane.