Re: Majority opinion vs. minority view
Maybe, maybe not.
But did you know Boeing is now pushing F-15SE Silent Eagle as cheaper version of "F-22"?
I have read somewhere that Boeing claimed "
F-15SE will have the SAME FRONTAL RCS of F-22". How much that is true, we won't know, but it is a bold claim from Boeing, who has to
SELL that to the Pentagon (who has the F-22 for RCS comparison).
[EDIT] : Actually, I just remembered, F-15SE Silent Eagle is being heavily pushed to
KOREAN GOVERNMENT,
who is NOT a partner of the F-35 program, hence they are not eligible for F-35 for the foreseeable future. So F-15SE is probably a compromise for the Koreans. (And since they don't have F-22 to compare to, how are they going to know F-15SE frontal RCS is going to be as stealthy as the F-22?
)
Anyway, my point is that, its not hard to modify the airframe, to make changes to the shaping for more RCS reduction in today's tech.
Martian's post still stands though -- the F-15SE despite all its improvements is not a 5th generation fighter.
And companies like to compare 4+ generation fighter jets to 5th generation planes all the time. I think on Lockheed's company site they compare the F-16E/F avionics very favourably with the F-22's. Don't take all that for granted.
But you know, the more I look at J-20, I still have doubts about the performance of it in regard to stealth. It just still reminds me too much of the Iranian Shafagh stealth fighter.... the same super smooth body (lacking any sorts of details) and the shiny RAM coating. It just seems, if you put F-22 prototype, T-50, J-20, and Shafagh side by side, J-20 looks more like Shafagh than T-50 or F-22.
... First, the paint on J-20 isn't shiny, second the RAM doesn't necessarily have to be black.
I don't think the shafagh fighter ever flew, it was only a mock up, so all the details present on a real prototype or production model wouldn't be there would it.
I actually can't believe you're arguing that the lack of details on J-20 is similar to the Shafagh therefore it must be somehow... illigetimate or fake. Have you considered the paint simply makes it hard to see?
Iranian Shafagh
The non-flying Japanese Stealth Fighter project also seems to feature an entirely smooth body devoid of any detail
the ATD-X was also just a mock up, it hasn't flown yet.
Of course we can all argue about the stealth and the performance til the cow comes home, but at this stage, IS IT REALLY THAT HARD to make a plane TO LOOK LIKE it has the capability of stealth since all all those concepts about stealth are now common knowledge? (Eg. serpentine engine ducting, RCS shaping rules etc..)
I think... yes it would be. Considering how many countries can actually make a decent 4th generation fighter, I assume it must be really quite hard to make a 5th generation fighter.
The devil is in the details.
Ultimately, the REAL indicator that J-20 is a 5th generation fighter will rest entirely on the things we can't see from photos. (The entire avionics and EW suits, sensor fusion, radar, engines, types of missile armaments..etc)
Can you stop putting in caps lock/bold words, it makes it sound like you're angry :/
So... you're saying J-20 isnt' 5th generation because we don't have evidence of all the individual systems necessary for it?
I actually don't agree with what you're saying. Avionics, missiles, engines etc are all vital and necessary in a 5th generation fighter, yes. But what seperates a 5th generation fighter, and a 4+ fighter is the stealth.
I believe on wikipedia there is an article about 5th generation fighters, and they quote a USAF pilot (regarding F-18E/F vs F-22/F-25):
The whole point to fifth generation is the synergy of stealth, fusion and complete situational awareness. The point about fifth generation aircraft is that they can do their mission anywhere - even in sophisticated integrated air defense [IADS] environments. If you fly into heavy IADS with a great radar and sensor fusion, but no stealth, you will have complete situational awareness of the guy that kills you.
So by definition J-20 is a 5th generation fighter. The avionics and weapon suites shouldn't be areas of concern, China seems to be moving along fairly well in these areas.
As always the weakest link is engines, but WS-15 at the moment looks in better shape than WS-10.
