The World's 4th, 4.5 & 5th Generation Fighters

Re: Russian fifth generation fighter

I think the India factor may have had some part in the T-50's first flight, but I think the 2009-2010 deadline was set quite a while ago before the PLAAF general reaveled that the J-XX would fly "soon". The two incidents I think are not that connected.

@ Vlad Plasmius, Why do you think the J-20 will be more superior in stealth? (I ask out of interest, because I think that despite all of Russia's problems, they are probably superior in stealth technology relative to China... The J-20 will probably have round engine nozzles as well (and it seems to me T-50 will not be getting stealthy nozzles like the F-22). I wonder if they will make more serrations for the production T-50.

Re: Russian fifth generation fighter

Planeman, I don't think TVC makes for superp agility, it makes fighters super maneuverable, but not necessarily agile.
What TVC allows for is to quickly move the airplane around it's axes.
Now what it doesn't do is to alter the flightpath of the airplane, that is still done by aerodynamic means in all airplanes. When you violently move the A/C via TVC, you just put it's complete surface into the wind, creating a huge aerobrake. All these post stall maneuvers are massive energy killers, they look nice on airshows, but are almost useless in combat. A T:W ration of 1,2:1 is by far not enough to get an A/C moving again in a reasonable amount of time.
This backflip move gives you one good shot at an enemy (with todays helmet mounted sights and high off boresight missiles a move most likely not even required any more). But after that one move, if there's an enemy left and you're floating around like that, you're dead meat.

(The only use of these post stall things I can think of is to rapidly deplet energy (speed) to force an overshoot from the guy behind you.)

TVC is especially helpfull in low airspeed situations, when there's less controll autority via aerodynamic controll surfaces.

Gererally Deltas, and Delta Canards in particular, are really efficient in maintaining high energy states while allowing to perform high performance turns.

Re: Russian fifth generation fighter

twodollarss said:

China doesn't have that kind of quantum leap technology to match U.S. Let the experts in this forum educate you why China's JXX isn't going to match or exceed Raptor.

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Do you know that the below indicated technology (DF-21A) is not merely just another anti-ship missile but are in fact a technology unique only to the Chinese at the present? That it zig zags along its path towards a target then zooms in at hyper speed (Mach-7) at terminal stages on a target?

Hell! Who know what other David Copperfield tricks the Chinese may have under their sleeves besides the above and besides the reported claims in Chinese military enthusiast's circle that...

"their ASAT/ABM system have the potentials to steer itself towards a target for a guaranteed kill rather than merely by colliding with it???"

I mean what we've witness over the recent couple of years are but a tip of the Chinese technology iceberg so please -- stop uttering that threat at us cos it's getting old and it's getting boring...

:nana:

You are overestimating what China can do here. China can develop a stealth plane but it will not be as good as raptor. Everyone knows about this... If you don't know that, then you are a step behind.

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From the horse's very own mouth:


"The US Department of Defense has stated that China is developing a high hypersonic[1] land-based anti-ship ballistic missile (ASBM) based on the DF-21, with a range of up to 3,000 kilometres (1,900 mi). This would be the world's first and only ASBM and the world's first weapons system capable of targeting a moving aircraft carrier strike group from long-range, land-based mobile launchers.[5][6] These would combine manoeuvrable reentry vehicles (MaRVs) with some kind of terminal guidance system. Such a missile may have been tested in 2005-6, and the launch of the Jianbing-5/YaoGan-1 and Jianbing-6/YaoGan-2 satellites would give the Chinese targeting information from SAR and visual imaging respectively. The upgrades would allow China to employ the missile to launch attacks on US Navy aircraft carriers."

If there is a conflict between China and U.S, you will be the first one to shit your pants. I guarantee that. Being Chinese and defending your pride is what make your perception bias or thinking something beyond reality.

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Trigger happy cowboys???

Definitely not a plus for any of us... :nono::nono::nono:...

5th paragraph down:

“We . . . will prepare ourselves for the destruction of all of the cities east of Xian. Of course the Americans will have to be prepared that hundreds . . . of cities will be destroyed by the Chinese.”

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I mean given all of the exotic dishes to be had in China, I doubt if this General is daring enough to play with his own little brother ...

Sorry, but given the above, looks as if we'll both crap in our pants



:nana::nana::nana:

Re: Russian fifth generation fighter

Infra_Man99 said:

Did you get your information from

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

? I read similar information, but I don't think Australian Air Power is the best site for good analysis ....

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It does have a bias, but most sources have some bias . But the analysis on the QWIP technology itself sounds reasonable. In a stealth fighter vs. stealth fighter combat, fire-control radars on both aircrafts may have to stop emitting to avoid detection of each other. If that's the case, then the one with the superior IRST would have the advantage. Actually the PAK-FA has a big advantage since currently the F-22 doesn't have one. Maybe in the future the F-22 will add one on, just like J-10B has one and the J-10A doesn't.

Re: Russian fifth generation fighter

the indian government isnt made up of a bunch of die-hard military fanboy, if the project is ready for maiden flight, then it is ready. if it isnt, its just gonna be more embarrassing to force it up into the air then see it fall apart. i think it has nothing to do with China's revealing of its own project.

btw i heard russia is gonna arm it with this super long range AAM (like 400km) so that it can take out enemy AWACs, can anyone confirm this?

Re: Russian fifth generation fighter

@coolieno99; I believe the F-22's MAWS systems can be used as a 360 degree IRST in later upgrades, if I remember right it was a software upgrade to activate this feature.

@pla101prc; Are you talking about the Novator K-100? That particular missile's being funded by India (surprise surprise) for it's MKI's... But I don't think there's been any recent news about it's development. If a super long range AAM is developed with a 400km range or above (or any which is able to take down a large AWACs) I wonder if the T-50 is able to hold such a large weapon though... There's also the R-37, which is under development and looks like an AIM-54

@ harley one - dude you might wanna ease off the bolding and colouring in of your posts, before you incur the wrath of the mods : /



The Russian's made a smart move with the T-50's weapon bay I think, in that it's big enough to carry regular AAM's in a stacked arrangement, but also larger bombs or missiles (probably not overly huge such as the Brahmos or whatever). So it could potentially have a long range AAM like the K-100 in one weapons bay and four normal AAM's in the other for self defense. I wonder how the mechanism works, if the missiles are to be stacked though - wasn't the YF-23 similar in weapons bay design?

But personally I prefer the F-22's weapon mechanism, which looks far sleeker and is more orientated to air to air combat imho.

Re: Russian fifth generation fighter

to two dollars,

This is an uncounted and immature way of debate. We are all having a meaningful discussion on the developement of the Russian aircraft. There is no need to retort in all this thing about ''Chinese Brother" and things like that. If you have good backing to all that you have said and claim, please feel free to post it up here.

Harley had posted his links and many others had done that too. And these are more convincing then your claims that China do not have this and that.

And may I remind you, we are in this forum, it is not a Chinese Forum or we would all be written in Chinese. This is an international forum on Chinese military.

Last, I would very much be interested in you showing proof of claims.

Re: Russian fifth generation fighter

to twodollars;

:roll:if you walk into a discussion thinking that no one here other than yourself is being impartial, then you might as well not participate at all. ff

Re: Russian fifth generation fighter

Bltizo said:

@coolieno99; I believe the F-22's MAWS systems can be used as a 360 degree IRST in later upgrades, if I remember right it was a software upgrade to activate this feature.

@pla101prc; Are you talking about the Novator K-100? That particular missile's being funded by India (surprise surprise) for it's MKI's... But I don't think there's been any recent news about it's development. If a super long range AAM is developed with a 400km range or above (or any which is able to take down a large AWACs) I wonder if the T-50 is able to hold such a large weapon though... There's also the R-37, which is under development and looks like an AIM-54

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so if it does have to range how is it guided anyways? i mean you can barely detect the target that far away let alone hitting it.

Re: Russian fifth generation fighter

@twodollarss

You may think that. Apparently, many in the US congress think the opposite, hence the whole "China threat" stuff. And let's also keep the "China brother" thing out of the discussion as well. If you have ever participated in a face-to-face argument with people, you know that this kind of talk is belittling and insulting to those you are having a discussion with. If you ever go to a sports bar and start a "you people vs. my people" talk, that would normally be a start of a brawl. This is normally considered as personal attack. Let's keep the discussion on the topic, be it missiles or fighters.