The War in the Ukraine

TK3600

Major
Registered Member
While I agree that losing Kherson is bad for Russia, I disagree about the million men thing. I see this floating around at different places. Ukraine has a million men to throw at the Russians.

In modern warfare, you need cannons and armor. This is especially true if you are going on the offensive. All the signs point to Ukraine depleting most of its armor and cannons. This is why they are using technicals for their offensive.

You also need NCOs, which take years to train. In the West, a soldier that went through a few months of training is called passing basic training, that is not really ready to fight. Ukraine is losing these in a very rapid rate. In a war, if your men went through battle, their combat effectiveness increases significantly. However, if you loses a lot of those that actually went through combat, your combat effectiveness decreases.

When the Ukrainian offensive finishes, they will face even a more severe equipment shortage which are not replenished by NATO. 16 HIMARS, more than half of which are already gone, is not a lot of firepower. sending a few tens of thousand who went through basic training from the West leading a bunch of conscripts is what I call the blind leading the blind. You have to stop in the middle of a fight and get out and read your army handbook to see what steps to take next, that is not a good thing.

Even if you do have a million men, your logistics and equipment only allow you so many. If the Russians go on an offensive and you got a lot of guys with broomsticks, it doesn't do any good. You need to supply these people. Modern warfare is a very material intensive, which requires logistics. If your entire country is out of power, you need to devote a huge portion of the meager logistical resources just to keep your people warm and fed.

Once Donbass is done, Ukraine no longer have well constructed defensive lines that took eight years to build. In vast open plains, soldiers in civilian vehicles with a few IFV, one or two tanks against tanks, IFV and warplanes is a one sided slaughter. A million men against a million bullets from IFV and tanks, the bullets win every time.
You misunderstood me. Obviously these 1 million reserves are not combat ready and you cannot send them in at once. They are only meant to gradually replace the losses sustained during their offensive. I cannot predict heavy equipments, but western aid should cover basic ammo and the likes. And indeed, when the number coverage is insufficient, you would be forced to retreat against technicals in open field, even if you had firepower advantage. See Kharkov.
 

gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
Use Google. It is pretty well known the homeopathic amounts of "modern" equipment the West has sent Ukraine.
Even when equipment like the Pzh2000 is sent, NATO equipment is simply not made to sustain the kind of punishment an actual war demands.
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"In total, Germany together with the Netherlands transferred 22 systems of this type to Ukraine."

Ukraine had 40 2S19 Msta and 501 2S3 Akatsiya before the war started. So yes these are homeopathic amounts of equipment.
 

reservior dogs

Junior Member
Registered Member
You misunderstood me. Obviously these 1 million reserves are not combat ready and you cannot send them in at once. They are only meant to gradually replace the losses sustained during their offensive. I cannot predict heavy equipments, but western aid should cover basic ammo and the likes. And indeed, when the number coverage is insufficient, you would be forced to retreat against technicals in open field, even if you had firepower advantage. See Kharkov.
The Ukrainians were out of tanks, the West sent in all of our Soviet style tanks and they are now being blown up. We are not sending anymore. We do send in some IFV, but not nearly enough. Cannons and shells were sent in small amounts and they are being blown up as they are deployed. NCOs, once kill or wounded, don't come back. The kill ratio is very lopsided against Ukraine. The Russians are rotating their troops, which means their troops that have seen combat are increasing at a very rapid rate. Ukraine does not have means to produce or even repair their equipment. NCOs and equipment cannot be replaced. Soon, when the Russians are done with Donbass, they will push West and Ukraine will have no way to stop them. If some elements which you need to fight the war is dwindling and going away, you can not just replenish the men and be the same.
 

tokenanalyst

Brigadier
Registered Member
1666223093938.png
The energy situation in Ukraine is becoming pretty critical by the day.
My guess is that one of the the Russians objective is to force the Ukrainians air defense systems to focus in defending the infrastructure of the country so they can freely use their air forces in the battlefield in the East. Pretty smart tactic but is going to have a heavy toll in the population of Ukraine.
 

foxmulder

Junior Member
View attachment 99841
The energy situation in Ukraine is becoming pretty critical by the day.
My guess is that one of the the Russians objective is to force the Ukrainians air defense systems to focus in defending the infrastructure of the country so they can freely use their air forces in the battlefield in the East. Pretty smart tactic but is going to have a heavy toll in the population of Ukraine.

This satellite picture is very telling. Thanks for sharing.
 

Atomicfrog

Major
Registered Member
View attachment 99841
The energy situation in Ukraine is becoming pretty critical by the day.
My guess is that one of the the Russians objective is to force the Ukrainians air defense systems to focus in defending the infrastructure of the country so they can freely use their air forces in the battlefield in the East. Pretty smart tactic but is going to have a heavy toll in the population of Ukraine.
They just have to do like Russian for Kherson civilians, bring them somewhere else near where there's energy, you cannot leave your citizens that way ? Most european country don't want more and they will be in the cold at this rate there... they don't have a lot of choice left. Turkey ? Sorry i'm sarcastic... UK want to send their refugee to Rwanda, they are on something.
 

reservior dogs

Junior Member
Registered Member
Those who claim that Ukraine has a million men to throw at the Russians forget that Russia has 4x the population. I still remember back in the day, many here on this forum said that Russia has no way to mobilize their people, unlike Ukraine. That lasted until they actually mobilized 300K people. These people most have served in the military, many recently. They won't be thrown to the wolves with a month of training like their Ukrainian counterparts. Most likely, they will take up non-combat duties, freeing up the current combat troop to do more combat. They will then gradually immersed into the war. They will be well led by experienced troops. They will be well equipped, at least compared to their Ukrainian counterparts. If they are to go to combat, they will be a junior member of a experienced team, making up for the losses of the team. At the end, if the 300K is not enough, Russia can mobilize another 300K, and another 300K after that until the job is done. It is hard to imagine even with the current 300K, that the Ukrainians can fend them off, especially after their equipment losses from the current offensive. Given that all the countries like China and India are evacuating their people from Ukraine, something big is coming. The Russians just have to maintain a toehold in Kherson until the Ukrainian offensive run out of steam.
 
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TK3600

Major
Registered Member
Those who claim that Ukraine has a million men to throw at the Russians forget that Russia has 4x the population. I still remember back in the day, many here on this forum said that Russia has no way to mobilize their people, unlike Ukraine. That lasted until they actually mobilized 300K people. These people most have served in the military, many recently. They won't be thrown to the wolves with a month of training like their Ukrainian counterparts. Most likely, they will take up non-combat duties, freeing up the current combat troop to do more combat. They will then gradually immersed into the war. They will be well led by experienced troops. They will be well equipped, at least compared to their Ukrainian counterparts. If they are to go to combat, they will be a junior member of a experienced team, making up for the losses of the team. At the end, if the 300K is not enough, Russia can mobilize another 300K, and another 300K after that until the job is done. It is hard to imagine even with the current 300K, that the Ukrainians can fend them off, especially after their equipment losses from the current offensive. Given that all the countries like China and India are evacuating their people from Ukraine, something big is coming. The Russians just have to maintain a toehold in Kherson until the Ukrainian offensive run out of steam.
That is not really true. Those 300k are manning the border and what not thereby freeing up professional troops. Some of them are sent in Ukraine but only in backline to free up professionals. Until Russia actually decide politically to send the conscripts into the front line there will be no use to mobilize further. It is still professional army like day 1.
 

reservior dogs

Junior Member
Registered Member
Until Russia actually decide politically to send the conscripts into the front line
That sounds like the same cope that reasoned the Russians have no way to mobilize. The people who are mobilized have different kinds of of people. Many are ex-military. Many are gung ho. You cannot blanketly say they won't be sent to the frontline. There are many who are willing to go to the frontline. The Wagner group has been expanding, even as they are suffering losses. The Army has been able to replenish their losses. These people came from somewhere. I would say there are probably much higher portion of the draftees who are willing to go to the frontline compared to their Ukrainian counterparts.
 
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