The War in the Ukraine

Janiz

Senior Member
They didn't stand a chance because they did not have the personnel in place to put up a fight even though the Ukrainians had telegraphed their build up for weeks ahead of time and they did not have the time to make any major reinforcements by the time the Ukrainians actually went on the offensive...
Hindsight is a bastard!

Nope, they didn't stand a chance due to negligence. There was no massive concentration of forces - all of the Ukrainian units which started the offensive were operating in the area for months. Once they've started cutting through the lines (great intelligence work there too) and special forces started turmoil and chaos behind the lines then they've decided to commit more troops there. The massive buildup of Ukrainian forces there is something created to ease the pain of the Russians after collapse of the front (not to mention that the were portraying it as "foreign mercenaries" lead the attack and that's why they had problems).

As for the argument of weak Russian forces in the area - who's problem and mistake was that? Ukrainian? lol

This offensive was a textbook one and probably will be taught in the military academies around the world in the coming years.

Everything went perfect - identify enemy forces, choose the weakest point in the defensive, start breaking through the lines with superior amount of force, break through into the void behind the lines, use special special forces to create chaos deep behind the enemy lines, wreak havoc as you're progressing, defeat enemy reinforcements in swift action, make as much realistic progress as the forces you're using are limiting factor.

All done in the matter of 72 hours. Hands down impressive.
 

Weaasel

Senior Member
Registered Member
Hindsight is a bastard!

Nope, they didn't stand a chance due to negligence. There was no massive concentration of forces - all of the Ukrainian units which started the offensive were operating in the area for months. Once they've started cutting through the lines (great intelligence work there too) and special forces started turmoil and chaos behind the lines then they've decided to commit more troops there. The massive buildup of Ukrainian forces there is something created to ease the pain of the Russians after collapse of the front (not to mention that the were portraying it as "foreign mercenaries" lead the attack and that's why they had problems).

As for the argument of weak Russian forces in the area - who's problem and mistake was that? Ukrainian? lol

This offensive was a textbook one and probably will be taught in the military academies around the world in the coming years.

Everything went perfect - identify enemy forces, choose the weakest point in the defensive, start breaking through the lines with superior amount of force, break through into the void behind the lines, use special special forces to create chaos deep behind the enemy lines, wreak havoc as you're progressing, defeat enemy reinforcements in swift action, make as much realistic progress as the forces you're using are limiting factor.

All done in the matter of 72 hours. Hands down impressive.
If you haven't read my earlier posts on the issue, I have said that the Russians were negligent. Scroll back a few pages when I began commenting on the issue... I have said that it boggles the mind why, when Ukraine is not defeated, Russia wouldn't keep a large presence of forces in Kharkov for such reasons as to tie down Ukrainian forces there, have the Ukrainians fear that Russia might undertake a major offensive in Kharkov, and ensure the consolidation of gains in Donbass.
 

Weaasel

Senior Member
Registered Member
Are you seriously trying to claim that an entire Tank Army was destroyed within 24 hours !!??

What would that be? Hundred of Armoured Vehicles and 50.000 men?
Zelensky is also claiming that his forces outnumbered the Russians by 8:1 so you are claiming that the Ukrainians were able to concentrate and organise, equip and supply a force of nearly 500,000 within a couple of weeks.

If any of this was remotely possible or true, we would be seeing scenes not seen since Operation Desert Storm, with miles long rods of death and miles long columns of Russian prisoners.
Given the Zelensky Regime jump on every little victory, magnify it and crow about it to the world, such scenes would have been making global headlines since Sunday morning!
The Ukrainians would have captured entire battalions worth of kit they could use.

Instead there is nothing, because there is nothing and Zelensky is still wailing and tearing his beard, piteously waving his begging bowl under the noses of the west.

Why would one army collapse so totally without a fight when the rest of the front line is holding up so well, especially at Lyman which just around the corner.
What your claiming is such obvious BS its actually an embarrassment to see it on this site. ALthough it does reinforce why this thread is so necessary given the total rubbish that is being distributed as news.

Back in the real world, it seems that the numbers on both sides were a lot smaller than people previously thought. The Ukrainian force may have been no more than 10,000 and less than 2000 Russians left in the entire sector, most of them LNR militia by all accounts.

What does seem to be the case however is that many of the Ukrainian forces were taken from the Bakhmut area, thus weakening the Ukrainian garrison there. If so we now can understand why Wagner and others have picked up there rate of advance on that front and look close to cutting off all the supply route
Is the risk of losing Bakhmut worth a PR exercise over MAMBO country in Eastern Kharkov? You tell me.
He is not claiming that the 1st Tank Army was destroyed in 24 hrs. He is claiming that the front collapsed in 24 hrs. And it did not collapse in 24 hrs...

Anyway, even the claims that the British Ministry of Defence makes on the Tank Army are as a result of the entire conflict and mostly within the first two months of the conflict and not with regards to this Kharkov offensive.

Do not underestimate the value of morale boosting, as fleeting as it might turnout to be, that comes through the retreat of Russian forces, even if they did so with very few casualties and modest materiel resources.
 

gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
The 1st Guards Tank Army did not collapse. They had some tank losses but they have like 500-800 tanks.

At most I have seen like half a dozen broken down T-80U tanks from the 4th Guards Tank Division since the war started. And those guys alone have almost 200 T-80U tanks. Even if you believed Oryx's numbers of 80 T-80U losses that would be less than half the T-80U tanks just one of the Divisions has, not the whole Army.

Here is a video of a Su-34 on a bombing run.
 
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Dragon of War

Junior Member
Registered Member
President Zelensky was involved in a car crash while visiting the battlefield, injuries determined to be non-life threatening. The vehicle that collided with Zelensky's vehicle was a "passenger car" and the individual inside was given first aid by Zelensky's personal first aid team. The area Zelensky was visiting was the recaptured city of Izyum "a key logistics hub in north-eastern Ukraine" on his way back to Kyiv from the Kharkiv region.


Source:

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plawolf

Lieutenant General
Judging by that leisurely stroll over Ukranians positions, if we apply osintbro logic, I guess all the ukranian army ran out of manpads

It wasn’t MANPADs that kept Russian TacAir away, it was Ukraine’s soviet air defences.

But by making advances, Ukraine troops moved out of the protection bubble offered by their SAMs, thereby allowing the VKS to come out and play once more.

It’s so sad to see Su34s doing low level dumb bomb runs like this. Total waste of the jet’s potential while massively exposing them to MANPADs and even AAA.
 

tankphobia

Senior Member
Registered Member
It wasn’t MANPADs that kept Russian TacAir away, it was Ukraine’s soviet air defences.

But by making advances, Ukraine troops moved out of the protection bubble offered by their SAMs, thereby allowing the VKS to come out and play once more.

It’s so sad to see Su34s doing low level dumb bomb runs like this. Total waste of the jet’s potential while massively exposing them to MANPADs and even AAA.
One would think Russia has at least some SEAD capabilities, but instead those super expensive advanced bombers are being forced to do low level bomb runs because of 30+ year old AA systems. Surely some ARMs is cheaper than one of those getting downed by manpads.
 

Sheleah

Junior Member
Registered Member
Zelensky is also claiming that his forces outnumbered the Russians by 8:1
That was not said by Zelensky, Vitaly Ganchev (head of the civic-military administration in the area for the Russian side) has said on Russian television... So it could be true, or it could be an excuse to justify defeat and later removal...



The Ukrainians would have captured entire battalions worth of kit they could use

"Entire battalions" could be an exaggeration... But it is clear that the amount of captured and destroyed equipment is large, as well as the falling into Ukrainian hands of caches of weapons, ammunition and heavy weapons... Some equipment of great importance, so it can be said that the withdrawal was hasty and not at all organized as the Russian sources assure... And the amount of Russian POWs shown, has been in a week greater than that evidenced in the last 3 months, so it is normal that it is publicized by the Ukrainian sources, because it has not been something insignificant as the Russian propaganda pretends to assure


Why would one army collapse so totally without a fight when the rest of the front line is holding up so well, especially at Lyman which just around the corner.

Define "so well"... If the rest of the front on the Russian side were "so well" the Russians would not have needed to immediately send reinforcements to Lyman and thus avoid losing control of the area... What's more, It must have been one of the most fortified areas of the Donbas...


The Ukrainian force may have been no more than 10,000 and less than 2000 Russians left in the entire sector, most of them LNR militia by all accounts
What evidence or justification are you taking into account to give those numbers???... Why do you assure that the majority were militants of the LNR?... Most of the equipment captured and destroyed in the visual evidence, correspond to equipment of the groups z and o, electronic warfare equipment that is not even used by the LNR, equipment and material that only the Russian army has and in small quantities, such as the BMO-T flamethrower vehicle that has been captured as a trophy by the Ukrainians, and the only operator in the world has been the Russian army....



What does seem to be the case however is that many of the Ukrainian forces were taken from the Bakhmut area, thus weakening the Ukrainian garrison there. If so we now can understand why Wagner and others have picked up there rate of advance on that front and look close to cutting off all the supply route
Is the risk of losing Bakhmut worth a PR exercise over MAMBO country in Eastern Kharkov? You tell me

The Russians and especially Wagner have tried to advance on Bakhmut since long before the Ukrainian offensive on Kharkov, it is one of the few parts of Donets where they have managed to advance regularly... But although the Russian and Wagner mercenary offensive has intensified the last week (they urgently need to sell some victory), the advance has not been significantly fast, neither in Bakhmut, nor in Soledar, which has been announced as "captured" several times, when in fact the Ukrainian forces are still resisting... But the reality is that those areas, according to the announcements of Russian offensives, would have to be taken weeks ago, I mean, if such offensives were really as effective as the Russian publicity wants us to believe

Do you have a "rate of advance" statistic in Bakhmut that confirms that it has increased "significantly" in recent weeks????...

The Russian advances in Bakhmut, are proportional to the "withdrawal" from Kharkov, so that the publicity does not want to sell them as an exchange???... I think that the Russian forces had determination, they could have taken Bakhmut and everything Donest, no need to lose Kharkov, but we see that the excuses are sold like "hot cakes"
 
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