The War in the Ukraine

Shadow_Whomel

Junior Member
Registered Member
Seems like an unnecessary distraction to me.
The tank biathlon had to be made up entirely of T72-B3s, and based on the teams competing in this tournament, it would have required the draw of about 50+ T72-B3s, which is essentially the equivalent of a tank regiment, about 5% of the pre-war T72-B3s of the Russians. Please don't forget that the Russians are now stuffing all kinds of tanks to the front line, even including T72-A's at the moment, and having 50+ advanced tanks unavailable in those two weeks still has quite an impact on the front line. As well I am curious to see if the Russians will be taking their best crews from the front line back home to compete, it will be interesting to see exactly how these war-tested crews will perform.
 

Biscuits

Colonel
Registered Member
And the use of HIMARs might be NATO-like(whatever that might mean), but everything else isn't, from photo-ops on Snake Island to paniked retreats, to bunching up during artillery strikes, to using soft-skinned vehicles

A case in point being a video where 10 to 16 UAF soldiers were running away from artillery, bunching up in a hedge, getting wounded(and even not noticing one of the wounded who was left in an open field for several minutes) then getting picked up in a van and a car just to get ambushed, causing the car to flee, leaving everybody else stranded and wounded, if you wanna talk videogame-like
You don't know if that's NATO like or not because we've never seen NATO fight anything but barely armed irregulars or civilians.

At the start Ukraine was fighting fairly professionally, quality is starting to nosedive due to losses among the Soviet organized army and their replacement with western trained nazis and unwilling conscripts.
 

sheogorath

Major
Registered Member
Ex-president of Ukraine Petro Poroshenko continues to purchase military equipment for Ukraine. This time, Italian MLS SHIELD armored vehicles were purchased with volunteer funds, according to Poroshenko, the equipment was purchased for the counteroffensive of the Ukrainian army.
I wonder how much of this equipment actually ends in the hands of his own personal army.

If Russia doesn't go for western Ukraine, whatever happens, will most likely be a country split among and run by warlords.


First of all - there's no point in comparing HIMARS that Ukrainians are using (especially coupled with munitions they were provided by US) and Iskanders/Kalibrs. Those are two different things. BTW - there are now at least 9 launchers used by Ukrainians.

Maybe, but we are indeed comparing their effects on similar targets, which is weapons depots, fuel storages, barracks and command posts, are we not?.

sorties numbers recorded by Ukrainian side please
You mean, those who reported the downing of 4 Il-76 around Hostomel, a single non-existant pilot downing 30 russian jets, etc?.

Yeah, you are going to have to do better than that. If Russian sources are no reliable, even more so Ukranian ones.

more than 70% of the unguided projectiles and guided air missiles launched by the Russian Federation over Ukraine do not reach their target

So, we are led to believe that russian cruise missiles, ones that they have constantly launched since introduction into service particularly in Syria, have a higher failure rate three times higher than the German V-1(22%), yet somehow, the Ukranian countryside isn't completely littered with remains of russian rockets and we see plenty of videos of the aftermaths day in and day out?

Ah, I see they lump them together with "unguided projectiles" without defining what that category entails. Is it only rocket artillery, does it include tubed artillery rounds as well?.

What do they mean not reaching their target?. Landing a few meters short/beyond the assumed target?. Does blanketing an area with Grads without specific targets also acounts as "missing the target"?

On my neck of the woods, that was usually called "creative accounting". Funny enough, you don't seem to have a problem in this case with grouping "two different things together" in order to paint a misleading picture just to cope.
 

zhangjim

Junior Member
Registered Member
Kind of a silly dig saying the Russians are ‘timid’ when being curbstomped by them.

I think he is comparing the Russian approach to the hyper-aggressive American approach in Iraq and Afghanistan, which is silly. Because if the Iraqis and Afghanis had even a fraction of the ATGM and artillery capabilities as the Ukrainians, the Americans would have also fought ‘timidly’.
The Americans will soon show bravery in COD and ruthlessly destroy the Russian army.
Should they have built up along socialist lines instead, open up the country without disfavoring the workers, put initiatives to shift military tech bureaus into civilian sectors, it's likely that they would have nukes, have a comparable gdp per capita to China if not higher, functioning navy with at least 1 CV and military professionalism rivalling the PLA/old USSR.

Ukraine is an interesting country to me because it shares many parallels with China, but in the end handled things as badly as possible.
This is very difficult. The similarity between Ukraine and China is very low. But the Kiev regime is very much like the KMT regime.
Ethnic issues can be said to be the root cause of this war,the existence of Ukraine is based on opposition to the Russians.
Their military industry is a "surprise" for this new country.These industries serve the "Soviet Union" rather than Ukraine.If they oppose Russia, these military industries will gradually lose value.
Eastern European countries have given a good demonstration: a large number of military industries that do not meet NATO standards have been shut down.
 

sheogorath

Major
Registered Member
You don't know if that's NATO like or not because we've never seen NATO fight anything but barely armed irregulars or civilians.

That's true as well. Most NATO countries haven't been involved in a near-peer conflict in +30 years, so we have been spoiled by images of their "success" in Afghanistan and Iraq. The closest was their involvement against Serbia where they managed to lose an F-117 and several other planes despite extensive SEAD.


NATO is defensive alliance (if a NATO country starts with aggression of another country it's not a problem for any other one).

Just like it happened with Libya...oh wait, nevermind

Yugoslavia...wait, nope, not that one either.

Kosovo?. Nein.

I'm certain you are well aware most people in this forum know "NATO is only a defensive alliance" is BS, so I'm not sure who you are trying to convice with that other than yourself.
 
Last edited:

Stealthflanker

Senior Member
Registered Member
They always vague in terms of weapons "accuracy" and "failure rates". especially if adding unguided munitions in the count.
In the retrospect tho.. Cruise missile failure are expected. Reliability of typical cruise missile or tactical missile in general are about 93-94% at most. so in salvo of 10.. there will always likely one bad batch which can fail.

Also Arestovich seems to make claims of 80% of Russian cruise missiles were shot down in the recent time compared to 15% last time.

The thing is of course is that 80% are for "nationwide" or in some very well defended area. particularly Kiev and Lviv. Lviv may enjoy US army patriot coverage from Rzezow but that only against target flying higher or equal to about 3000 m.
 

LawLeadsToPeace

Senior Member
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
Registered Member
I am thinking of the velocity of the bullet on impact, within a short range (400 meters instead of nearly 2000 meters), could the velocity be supersonic? The muzzle velocity is often more than mach 2. I don't know what the shock wave from a blast cap is though. The air front speed to the surrounding area of the muzzle is far lower than the muzzle velocity or the impact velocity of the bullet.
It’s definitely an interesting topic, but we are heading into the off topic and theoretical region now. That topic would require us to hunt down the numbers and equations needed to determine if that is possible.
 
Top