The War in the Ukraine

tankphobia

Senior Member
Registered Member
This is why I said Russian threats are meant for audiences to the East more than NATO.

Russia says they wanna use nukes. Chinese ask through back channels what additional goodies they want to take nukes back off the table, and not long after Russia magically develops the ability to field new weapons on a massive scale. If the EU kicks up any fuss with China, China ask them if they prefer mushroom clouds over Europe instead and shuts them down hard.
But China is the one with all the leverage here. Both India and China have benefitted massively from increased trade and cheaper commodity from Russia. Are you saying that Russia is blackmailing China into sending it arms because it is unable to win a conventional conflict with its Neighbour? China has made its stance quite clear IMO, they champion win-win partnership between great power and its Neighbours, not imperialistic land grabs using military might. Even though they support Russia's need for secure borders, they do not necessarily condone its military adventures.

Also, incinerating cities full of civilians have never been a Nazi monopoly least you forget Dresden, Tokyo, the Korean War, not to mention Hiroshima and Nagasaki. If America can be the special shinning city on the hill after all the civilians and cities they have incinerated, who says it will be that different for Russia?
So we agree that incinerating cities full of civilians are not an act that should be conducted by non-imperialistic powers? Good.
 

Index

Senior Member
Registered Member
But China is the one with all the leverage here. Both India and China have benefitted massively from increased trade and cheaper commodity from Russia. Are you saying that Russia is blackmailing China into sending it arms because it is unable to win a conventional conflict with its Neighbour?
Russia has access to allies so what is wrong with using them to ease the difficulty of a war?

By your logic Israel taking support from US means it is unable to win a conventional conflict with a single occupied city inside claimed Israeli territory?
China has made its stance quite clear IMO, they champion win-win partnership between great power and its Neighbours, not imperialistic land grabs using military might. Even though they support Russia's need for secure borders, they do not necessarily condone its military adventures.
They have not said anything like that relating to this conflict... You can just as well say that China supports win win partnership between Russia and the LDPR and/or between Ukraine and LDPR. Why is Ukraine not adhering to win win partnership with its neighbor LDPR?
So we agree that incinerating cities full of civilians are not an act that should be conducted by non-imperialistic powers? Good.
You are allowed to fire at anyone involved in the war effort and this goes for any country. Where can you find a list of "imperialist" and "non imperialist" powers? At the UN?
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
But China is the one with all the leverage here. Both India and China have benefitted massively from increased trade and cheaper commodity from Russia. Are you saying that Russia is blackmailing China into sending it arms because it is unable to win a conventional conflict with its Neighbour? China has made its stance quite clear IMO, they champion win-win partnership between great power and its Neighbours, not imperialistic land grabs using military might. Even though they support Russia's need for secure borders, they do not necessarily condone its military adventures.

It’s naive to view great power relationships like human relationships and also to view nations as either completely good or completely bad, nor would one nation ever have all the power while the other have none. It’s an everlasting series of deals that change all the time based on balances of power, external factors and internal political needs etc.

While China in the past has indeed championed the notion of win-win solitons with the west, the west has hardly been reciprocal to those overtures. It is frankly bizarre to expect to hold China to its earlier offer when the west has outright rejected that offer and has been relentlessly hostile to China ever since.

The EU has made it abundantly clear that it is an American sock puppet that will gladly sacrifice European self interest to advance American interests. So what kind of prized idiots do you think the Chinese to be to worry about European interests when the European leaders themselves don’t even care?

Make no mistake about it, there is zero daylight between Russia and China in their shared opinion that NATO is an enemy to them, NATO itself declares it openly. The only difference in opinion is how to counter it and who pays what price.

China wants to minimise the diplomatic and economic costs it faces in supporting Russia, while Russia wants to minimise their military losses. Both understands and respects the other’s position, so it’s a constant balancing act between them. The west allowing Ukraine, or more precisely, themselves directly attacking deep into Russia (since those long range NATO weapons cannot be used without direct input by NATO personnel) changes the equation. Russia announcing changes to its nuclear doctrine further changes that equation. Thus China will need to make adjustments to its level of support to re-establish the balance. That’s just how the game works. There is no blackmail. If the Chinese are pissed with anyone for forcing their hand, it sure as shit won’t be the Russians.

So we agree that incinerating cities full of civilians are not an act that should be conducted by non-imperialistic powers? Good.

What silliness is this? Are you saying if NATO glasses Chinese cities China can’t retaliate in kind as it needs to prove itself? Don’t be naive.

As I alluded to before, morality doesn’t apply in the same way to nations as it does people. If there is strong enough case for it, China will absolutely glass cities if it needs to. It would be worse than pointless to even have nuclear weapons if you are not prepared to use them when needed. If you cannot ever see yourself ever using nukes under any circumstance, don’t get nukes. Because that makes it incredibly unlikely that you will get nuked (but you can never totally remove that possibility since America has already set the precedent of nuking non-nuclear states). If you get nukes but aren’t prepared to use them, then all that does is needlessly and massively increase the chances of your cities getting nuked.
 

HighGround

Senior Member
Registered Member
Russia has launched a lot of recon satellites since the conflict started. And more GLONASS satellites to improve accuracy of their whole satnav system. They also seem to be doubling their capability to manufacture solid rockets. A huge expansion in industrial facilities is happening right now.
The question that I have is whether Russia has the labor force for this. Unemployment is rock bottom right now, which means production can only increase through increased productivity and capitalization. Otherwise inflation will rise.
 

Proton

Junior Member
Registered Member

sheogorath

Major
Registered Member
Is there any explanation to what is shown?

We see 5 "bursts" of 6 objects/glowing streaks (?) "raining down" in a fairly close proximity and no explosions on "impact".
Can't make sense of it.

Could be inert reentry vehicles and decoys. You don't need to put explosives in them as the kinetic energy is enough to blast whatever they hit

1700338977_myskillsconnect-com-p-foto-voronok-ot-raketi-32.jpg
 

mossen

Junior Member
Registered Member
Is there any explanation to what is shown?
ICBM blanks, most likely as a "warning shot".

Of course, this is just impotent posturing. Russia isn't going to nuke Ukraine just as it isn't going to nuke the West. Just as Ukraine isn't going to win the war while pretending they have a chance.

Both sides are so extremely cringe and perhaps that's why they hate each other: familiarity breeds contempt.
 
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