The War in the Ukraine

MortyandRick

Senior Member
Registered Member
The work of Russian special forces in Ukraine was caught on video. The purpose of the special forces was to find a mobile Ukrainian crew with a mortar. According to the results of the battle, two servicemen of Ukraine were destroyed and one was taken prisoner, the wounded was provided with medical assistance.


Wait so all those Redditors who say it was staged or it was friendly fire, they must be having a field day with this video



 

4Runner

Junior Member
Registered Member

俄罗斯钝刀子割肉,以后乌克兰还会存在吗?​

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Will Ukraine survive the Russian strategy of "cutting flesh with a blunt knife"?

This article is in Chinese from a Chinese forum. But it really demonstrate Chinese wisdom and analytical capacity. This one single example explains why the Chinese public has no illusion in this Russia-West conflict via Ukraine.

A few points in translation from the article.


Allensky has been portrait in a god-like statue in the west MSM. As a result, in any politically correct western country, people can criticize their own country leaders, but nobody dares criticize Allensky.

Among 40B US just approve, there will be less than 800M allocated to the hands of Allensky.

It is a foregone conclusion that Ukraine as we knew it is done. It is a matter of time, one year maybe?

After Mariupol, willingness to fight among Ukraine forces is going down. Now it is expected soon that Ukraine forces in Donbas will be annihilated.

Next are Odessa or Kharkov. If they are gone, why not Kiev? If Kiev is gone, why not whole?

US and EU have already felt their proxy war has gone too far too costly. But it is doubtful if they can even put Allensky in his position and get to some form of "truce".

In the end, Ukraine may turn out to be a worse version of Afghanistan.


[Disclaimer]
I don't necessarily agree with author's all points, particularly on the "whole" part. And his assessment is obviously more optimistic than mine. But I tend to agree with his analysis and rationale. Putin is winning. Ukraine is being destroyed. EU is losing. China is going around and telling everyone to chill. Anything else ......
 

LawLeadsToPeace

Senior Member
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
Registered Member

俄罗斯钝刀子割肉,以后乌克兰还会存在吗?​

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
Will Ukraine survive the Russian strategy of "cutting flesh with a blunt knife"?

This article is in Chinese from a Chinese forum. But it really demonstrate Chinese wisdom and analytical capacity. This one single example explains why the Chinese public has no illusion in this Russia-West conflict via Ukraine.

A few points in translation from the article.


Allensky has been portrait in a god-like statue in the west MSM. As a result, in any politically correct western country, people can criticize their own country leaders, but nobody dares criticize Allensky.

Among 40B US just approve, there will be less than 800M allocated to the hands of Allensky.

It is a foregone conclusion that Ukraine as we knew it is done. It is a matter of time, one year maybe?

After Mariupol, willingness to fight among Ukraine forces is going down. Now it is expected soon that Ukraine forces in Donbas will be annihilated.

Next are Odessa or Kharkov. If they are gone, why not Kiev? If Kiev is gone, why not whole?

US and EU have already felt their proxy war has gone too far too costly. But it is doubtful if they can even put Allensky in his position and get to some form of "truce".

In the end, Ukraine may turn out to be a worse version of Afghanistan.


[Disclaimer]
I don't necessarily agree with author's all points, particularly on the "whole" part. And his assessment is obviously more optimistic than mine. But I tend to agree with his analysis and rationale. Putin is winning. Ukraine is being destroyed. EU is losing. China is going around and telling everyone to chill. Anything else ......
Who’s Allesnky? Are you referring to Zelenskyy?
 

Phead128

Captain
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
The war reportedly cost them 900 million a day, which means they can last indefinitely, at least for a couple of years while the oil prices are high.
900 million per day....Is 900 million cost per day for war in rubles or US dollars?

For comparison, the US Afghanistan War cost $300 million per day over 20 years max for an economy 14X larger than Russia. If Russia is spending 3X more per day for war, with 14X smaller economy, then the mathematically, holding all else equal, they can only hold out 0.5 year at best at this rate of spend, which highly likely means declaring victory after Donbass is conquered within the next few months. US$900 million a day for "a few years" is unsustainable for a country whose military defense budget is only $65B. Even in a single year, you are talking about $330B dollars for cost of war at $900 million per day, which for a $1.3 Trillion GDP, is a huge burden.
 
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sheogorath

Major
Registered Member
This should make the wreckage more identifiable, I guess. If these are standard R-27R, then they are outranged by the russians R-71-1 by quite a margin, not mentioning the sensor disparity between a Su-35/Su-30SM and a MiG-29 that hasn't been touched since it left the factory.

It also seems like a waste of money, time and manpower, but hey "morale boosting" or something.

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Atomicfrog

Major
Registered Member
This should make the wreckage more identifiable, I guess. If these are standard R-27R, then they are outranged by the russians R-71-1 by quite a margin, not mentioning the sensor disparity between a Su-35/Su-30SM and a MiG-29 that hasn't been touched since it left the factory.

It also seems like a waste of money, time and manpower, but hey "morale boosting" or something.

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Painted like that, it bring down the chances to get shot by friendly fire. I clearly don't know why they let their remaining planes go fight in the west lately? It's a death trap for them. Sending them one by one is even worse... can they salvage an IFF from a downed Russian jet to at least have a chance to pull a surprise ?
 

supersnoop

Major
Registered Member
yeah, I agree, air force is one of the counters to artillery, if you have the planes

what I meant is that artillery has kinda lost some of its importance, at least in NATO nations, while it's still a perfectly viable system if you know how to use it and train extensively with it; it seems to me that NATO nations tend to favour other expensive assets like f-35s, carriers, subs and stuff like that; maybe they think that artillery is obsolete or too cumbersome on the battlefield, idk
heck, I think I read that an american retired officer disparaged russian creeping barrage tactics, calling them ww1 warfare; sure, it might be, but this shows how used NATO officers are to having overwhelming air superiority that they find that tactic obsolete
I used to think like that too since I live in a NATO nation, but this conflict made me rethink this stuff. For example, I never really understood why south korea is so afraid of war with north korea, since their technological superiority is obvious, but now I understand. it's not fun having your capital obliterated in a couple of hours

going forward, if I were the head of a procurement department I'd buy thousands of french cesars, or foster the development of a homegrown option, that stuff seems flexible enough to let artillery shoot & scoot at a fraction of the cost of a pzh-2000

I wonder if the PLA will need to reconsider some of its options going forward; they seem to have ditched soviet tactics with the modern reforms in favour of NATO-style ones, but they still develop flexible stuff like the PCL-181

I think @Tootensky hit the nail on the head for the most part.
I would add a couple more things. It's not really a matter of cumbersome, but reality is NATO/USA is always fighting offensive wars far from home. They can't station M109s everywhere, so they have to be flown in (like in Desert Storm). By the time you do that, you're better off using airstrikes.

Artillery still is important in NATO, you see they are still investing in it, but it's a much different purpose, more geared towards support, holding positions, etc. So you have a lot of precision fire developments. In any case, NATO has more ISR resources to direct more precision strikes even in terms of air or artillery.

Artillery barrels don't have infinite life... Most of the reserves and aged systems need new barrels to be effective. US will not spend token on old artillery systems that have been mothballed so to be effective they have to send their active ones or refurbishes the old ones before sending. Old system that are not used anymore will take even more time because stock of new barrels are probablty exhausted and tools to make them mothballed or sold to scrap.

The C3 used by CF are so old and overworn, they are actually using X-Ray scanning to check for metal fatigue now. Cheaper than buying new ones.

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Mothballed equipment probably should be subjected to more detailed testing before being returned to service, but in this case it is unlikely there is enough time.
 
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