The War in the Ukraine

reservior dogs said:

That is cheaper than cannon rounds. Before the extensive use of FABs, the Russians routinely fire thousands of rounds of cannons and kill and wound Ukrainians by the hundreds per day. If you do the math, that was about 20 rounds of cannons fired per each Ukrainian kill or wounded. Given that a round of cannon shell cost about $500, that is $10000 per Ukrainian killed or wounded. Each FAB kill or wound at least a dozen people in a building, that comes to $1000 per Ukrainian killed or wounded.

Click to expand...

I think the efficiency of aerial bombs vs. cannon fire depends on several factors to quantify this. I don't think it's that easy to make this comparison. Especially because cannon fire does not replace aerial bombs.

Furthermore, Russian cannon fire has improved greatly in terms of accuracy, with the aid of drones correcting artillery fire and better data fusion systems (ARM-K-M - the Russian copy of the Ukrainian Kropyva), the Russians have become They have improved a lot compared to the period when they entered this war in February 2022, but the Russians are certainly still behind the Ukrainians in this regard, due to Kropyva command and control systems, among others.

Russia has begun to study Ukrainian American-made ATACMS operational-tactical missiles. Three laser ring gyroscopes are being studied that help the guidance system keep the ATACMS missile on a given ballistic trajectory and a GPS antenna that provides correction in the initial and final phases of the missile's flight.
According to the technical specialist, “We can analyze the operation of rocket systems throughout the entire flight path. The correction base, how much it can be adjusted.” Details in the video.

Soldier30 said:

Russia has begun to study Ukrainian American-made ATACMS operational-tactical missiles. Three laser ring gyroscopes are being studied that help the guidance system keep the ATACMS missile on a given ballistic trajectory and a GPS antenna that provides correction in the initial and final phases of the missile's flight.

Click to expand...

The ATACMS is not a ballistic missile itself, because its trajectory does not follow faithfully like a ballistic form. Like PrSM, the terminal flight profile is believed to include a near-vertical dive toward its target to maximize terminal speed and accuracy, terminal speed is likely greater than Mach 3:

The apogee of a ballistic missile with a range of 300 km is normally above 80 km, and can reach an altitude of 100 km. ATACMS only climbs up to 65 km in altitude, allowing the missile to avoid most surface-to-air defense systems while maintaining the accuracy needed for precision strikes.

This is why the Russians are unable to respond to HIMARS/M270 fire with ATACMS, the Russian ISTAR capability in depth(>250 km) which basically depends on the VKS is still too small to be able to track and locate to carry out counterbattery fire against platforms launching ATACMS. The aeroballistic trajectory of the ATACMS complicates the entire Russian counterbattery effort, combined with the post-fire movement of the ATACMS launch platform makes everything more difficult for the Russian ISTAR.

Sinnavuuty said:

The cost of a FAB years ago was estimated at 1 million rubles, which currently amounts to US$12,580. Meanwhile, guided bombs like KAB were almost triple that value, somewhere around 3 million rubles, which gives a cost of US$34,300, Russia found this price unacceptable and installed the SVP-24 observation and navigation system Hephaestus on aircraft making conventional bombing more accurate, which in no way corresponded to the real situation as demonstrated in Syria and the first year of war in Ukraine, with the VKS dropping dumb bombs tens of meters away because of the threat to defense systems aerial.

Click to expand...

Russia knew the Ukrainians had a huge amount of Soviet S-300PS and Buk systems. So they should have known better.
This was just sloppy work. The Russian MIC had also presented glide bomb designs to the Russian MoD several times. You can squarely blame this gap on the Russian MoD.

Sinnavuuty said:

Furthermore, Russian cannon fire has improved greatly in terms of accuracy, with the aid of drones correcting artillery fire and better data fusion systems (ARM-K-M - the Russian copy of the Ukrainian Kropyva), the Russians have become They have improved a lot compared to the period when they entered this war in February 2022, but the Russians are certainly still behind the Ukrainians in this regard, due to Kropyva command and control systems, among others.

Click to expand...

Russia already had Strelets. So the claim that Russia lacked a similar system to direct artillery fires is bullshit.

And contrary to the Ukrainian system, which operates over easily jammed civilian cellphone systems the Russian system uses military grade communications to exchange data.

Soldier30 said:

Russia has begun to study Ukrainian American-made ATACMS operational-tactical missiles. Three laser ring gyroscopes are being studied that help the guidance system keep the ATACMS missile on a given ballistic trajectory and a GPS antenna that provides correction in the initial and final phases of the missile's flight.
According to the technical specialist, “We can analyze the operation of rocket systems throughout the entire flight path. The correction base, how much it can be adjusted.” Details in the video.

Click to expand...

This will help the Russians understand the constraints of the ATACMS missiles and make it easier to devise countermeasures. Of course this information will also likely be eventually passed to China and render ATACMS less useful in case of a Pacific conflict scenario.

gelgoog said:

Russia already had Strelets. So the claim that Russia lacked a similar system to direct artillery fires is bullshit.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

And contrary to the Ukrainian system, which operates over easily jammed civilian cellphone systems the Russian system uses military grade communications to exchange data.

Click to expand...

I think there was a post earlier in 2022 that claimed Russian forces have very few military-grade radios and the one that were issue were sold to black markets.

Baba Yaga intercepted by a Russian FPV drone. These things happen by chance and increasingly often, and when such mutual destruction occurs, the FPV drone is far cheaper than a Baba Yaga.


Spirne appears to have been taken by the Russians. That's another important Ukrainian stronghold that has lasted for a long time.


Probably the nightmare scenario for the Americans. The Russians taking apart and studying the ATACMS guidance system and learning from it.


Evidence of Telnik shells used by Russian tank crews. These shells can be preprogrammed to explode at a given point or proximity to the target, and you can choose the shape of the fragmentation spread, whether it's circular or a cone pattern. This sounds like something you don't want to be in the receiving end of it.


FPV drone hits Bradley.


FAB-3000 strike on Ukrainian position in Torestk.


Russians have taken Novopokrovskoye, and Stepovaya Novoselovka.


Iskanders hit Mirgorod airfield with cluster munitions. Bunch of Ukrainian Su-27s damaged or destroyed from this. At least two planes surely kaput up to five possibles. Ukrainians also appear to be drawing plane silhouettes on the airfield for decoy purposes.


Valkyrie SPN unit hunts for Ukrainian drone operators. Here they send FPV drones into the UAV operators nest and pickup.


Tanks of the 139th Brigade hits a Ukrainian field ammo depot.


The 69th Brigade sends one into a vehicle hanger of the AFU.


Ukrainian howitzer taken out by Lancet in the Kharkhiv front.


Russians FABing Ukrainian positions near Ugledar.


LMUR takes out a Ukrainian PVD near Makiivka.


RBK-500 working on hidden Ukrainian positions near Robotyne.


Olena Zelenska bought herself a limited edition Bugatti while Ukrainians are fighting and dying.

vincent said:

I think there was a post earlier in 2022 that claimed Russian forces have very few military-grade radios and the one that were issue were sold to black markets.

Click to expand...

The Russians had at least one Azart VHF radio for each platoon. In some cases one per squad.
Even among NATO countries it is uncommon for the entire squad to have long distance VHF communications. The British for example at best use short distance UHF communications for individual squad members. Their individual radios have only 500m range.

In cases where they were used the Bowman devices often proved to be issue prone. And try comparing the long distance VHF Bowman radios the British use to the VHF Azart...

The problem the Russians had was lack of cheap individual radios. And this is where they started buying civilian Chinese Baofeng handheld radios.

For like $65 USD and both VHF and UHF capable it is hard to beat. The problem is it lacks encryption and frequency hopping. i.e. not military grade.

As for why there were not more Azart radios produced. To speed up deployment someone in the supplier decided to use imported Western FPGAs in the units instead of the actual chips made in Russia which were meant to be put inside. And they ordered production of PCBs and other components in China. Then the Russian government found it out. Production was stopped for a while until this was at least partially rectified.

Sinnavuuty said:

Especially because cannon fire does not replace aerial bombs.

Click to expand...

Agreed, Cannons are better at moving targets where as FAB bombs are pretty much only good for fixed targets. Also FAB bombs have a much smaller quantity and cannot be everywhere at once. Still it is amazing how efficient these FAB bombs are.

gelgoog said:

Russia knew the Ukrainians had a huge amount of Soviet S-300PS and Buk systems. So they should have known better.
This was just sloppy work. The Russian MIC had also presented glide bomb designs to the Russian MoD several times. You can squarely blame this gap on the Russian MoD.

Click to expand...

Russian glide bombs don't solve Ukrainian AD network. They only allow GPS bombing of frontline & close rear.
But bombs are most effective not in the actual rear, not there. Frontline - dispersed, camouflaged and well dug-in, - is the single most resilent part of Ukraine; that includes bombs.
And even for what can be done in close rear - interdiction - GPS glide bombs aren't an answer. Nor are they an answer for CAS.

Glide bombs have been a major newsmaker for the last 2 years and they allowed VKS to return into the fight - but we should always remember that they're a sign of [successful] adaptation to loss in the air(Ukrainian air superiority over most of Ukraine).

There is a good reason why most air forces don't really use them as their main munitions, and those who do - do it for material destruction/terror purposes.
And it's perhaps telling that the main effect of VKS glide bombing isn't even on ZSU material - it's on the morale and physical condition of frontline companies.

Gloire_bb said:

Russian glide bombs don't solve Ukrainian AD network. They only allow GPS bombing of frontline & close rear.

Click to expand...

It allows bombing with impunity from Buks are the like. Which have been most of Ukrainian air defenses.
Typically the longer the range of a SAM system the less of them there are in an IADS. Which makes it easier to either defend against or avoid them.

Gloire_bb said:

But bombs are most effective not in the actual rear, not there. Frontline - dispersed, camouflaged and well dug-in, - is the single most resilent part of Ukraine; that includes bombs.

Click to expand...

It is also useful there in that you can deliver more explosives to frontline bunkers and the like. Which cannot be destroyed with 152mm artillery.

Gloire_bb said:

And even for what can be done in close rear - interdiction - GPS glide bombs aren't an answer. Nor are they an answer for CAS.

Click to expand...

With a rocket motor the glide bombs such as Kh-38 Grom-E1 can even have enough range to hit targets hiding behind a S-300PS system. As for CAS the Russians have been adapting. Their latest helicopters the Ka-52M and Mi-28NM can supposedly attack outside the range even of the Starstreak. Let alone other shorter range MANPADS.

Gloire_bb said:

Glide bombs have been a major newsmaker for the last 2 years and they allowed VKS to return into the fight - but we should always remember that they're a sign of [successful] adaptation to loss in the air(Ukrainian air superiority over most of Ukraine).

Click to expand...

They conquered Bakhmut even without them. But they have helped speed up destruction of the Ukrainian frontline.

Gloire_bb said:

There is a good reason why most air forces don't really use them as their main munitions, and those who do - do it for material destruction/terror purposes.

Click to expand...

This is bullshit. You do not use precision weapons for "terror purposes". For that relatively unguided weapons would suffice. You do not need much precision if your target is a whole civilian city.

Gloire_bb said:

And it's perhaps telling that the main effect of VKS glide bombing isn't even on ZSU material - it's on the morale and physical condition of frontline companies.

Click to expand...

Which is the whole point. That is how the Russians and the Soviets before them fight anyway. Flying long distance deep into the enemy territory is something they seldom do. Their air force has historically operated at a disadvantage either numerically or qualitatively. So to conserve aviation resources they typically operate closer to the frontline.