The War in the Ukraine

Hadoren said:

Personally I find this very unfortunate.

Wagner was Russia's most combat-effective unit, and in Prigozhin Russia had found a very potent military leader. Now Putin destroys both to preserve his power. Imagine if Stalin had murdered Zhukov in the middle of WWII.

How can Russia win when Putin keeps on purging its best generals? We never see lunacy like this on the Ukrainian side.

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Prigozhin wasn't a general, he was a businessman. Even if he was Stalin had plenty of generals executed.

If what the Russians are claiming is true, and he did attempt a coup (which I still have strong reservations about), what do you expect him to do? Let him go scott free? What message would that send out to other would be coup plotters?

I also don't believe the idea Wagner were Russia's most combat effective unit. Most of their soldiers were drafted from prisons with minimal training. What's so special about Wagner that turns convicts into elite soldiers?

Abominable said:

If what the Russians are claiming is true, and he did attempt a coup (which I still have strong reservations about), what do you expect him to do? Let him go scott free? What message would that send out to other would be coup plotters?

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If it was a coup against Ukraine instead of Russia. They would be calling to hang all the plotters off the nearest streetlight.

Abominable said:

Prigozhin wasn't a general, he was a businessman. Even if he was Stalin had plenty of generals executed.

If what the Russians are claiming is true, and he did attempt a coup (which I still have strong reservations about), what do you expect him to do? Let him go scott free? What message would that send out to other would be coup plotters?

I also don't believe the idea Wagner were Russia's most combat effective unit. Most of their soldiers were drafted from prisons with minimal training. What's so special about Wagner that turns convicts into elite soldiers?

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I agree with you. I still think this plane crash was all an act for Prigozhin. Putin couldn't exactly let Prigozhin return back to normal after the whole coup act so they faked his death with a plane crash.

Prigozhin also died in a plane crash in 2019.

As others pointed out all of Wagner leadership together in a single plane is a big risk.

Prigozhin is as likely to be under going plastic surgery right now, as he is of being part of the indistinguishable burnt remains of a plane crash.

LawLeadsToPeace said:

Cross posting this news from the Miscellaneous News thread:

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Also according to this article:

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“ Russian state news agency RIA Novosti, citing an anonymous source, reported that Surovikin has been replaced as commander of the Russian Aerospace Forces by Col. Gen. Viktor Afzalov, who heads the main staff of the air force.”

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Clear as day that Putin killed or "killed" Prigozhin. But yes, CIA was the one that did it lol

In any case, the moment the insurrection failed was the moment that Prigozhin's fate was sealed. "When you come at the king", even if by mistake, "you best not miss"

Hadoren said:

Wagner was Russia's most combat-effective unit, and in Prigozhin Russia had found a very potent military leader. Now Putin destroys both to preserve his power. Imagine if Stalin had murdered Zhukov in the middle of WWII.

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Insurrection is insurrection. You can't keep a loose cannon like him, it is a ticking bomb. The moment the insurrection began there was no turning back. Turning a blind a eye can only work when you are playing games on the dark and you keep a friendly face for the public. The insurrection exposed everything on the light and thus there could only be one end for the mutineers

Hadoren said:

How can Russia win when Putin keeps on purging its best generals?

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Putin's mistake was his absolutely amateur hour handling of Wagner before the coup/insurrection/mutiny happened. After the coup happened, as someone who thinks Putin is incompetent on strategy and developing the country, I would say that he handled it reasonably well.

Don't forget, after the arrow is fired from the bow, there is no turning back. Prigozhin made his bed (or rather, coffin now) and he has now faced the music

Abominable said:

Prigozhin wasn't a general, he was a businessman. Even if he was Stalin had plenty of generals executed.

If what the Russians are claiming is true, and he did attempt a coup (which I still have strong reservations about), what do you expect him to do? Let him go scott free? What message would that send out to other would be coup plotters?

I also don't believe the idea Wagner were Russia's most combat effective unit. Most of their soldiers were drafted from prisons with minimal training. What's so special about Wagner that turns convicts into elite soldiers?

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Wagner's a mercenary company, so most of its core regulars are going to be ex-VDV and Spetznaz. They had generally more combat experience than the average grunt, due to service in Syria and Libya. Not to mention operationally, unlike the rigid Russian command structure, Wagner operated on a more decentralized command structure which offered flexibility. So yes, I do believe they are the most combat effective detatchment in the Russian army.

But this only speaks to the state of the Russian army that their best detachment had to expend all its combat power in as well as thousands of disposable convicts to conquer a minor city like Bakhmut, after which they had to pull back due to degradation and Russia i nowhere closer to Sloviansk and Kramatorsk.

Atomicfrog said:

The ''coup'' was clearly throwing a ton of **** in the air that would definitively drop back on him and Wagner anyway. Prigozhin is dead or faking dead, whatever....I don't think we will see him again.

A bit more flashy than falling from the ninth floor.

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All 10 bodies were found and Prigozhin is almost certainly confirmed dead unless this was a show, and he was not on the plane. I believe the plane crash was not a naturally happened accident. Someone arranged it and the purpose is obvious. So, unless Prigozhin knew it in advance and replace himself with somebody else. However, I think it is highly possible that Prigozhin was on the plane and died in the "accident".

Biscuits said:

Prigozhin made it 1000kms within Moscow, meanwhile Ukraine's NATO style divisions was on the full attack. How much did they achieve while their boi Prigozhin gave them such a rare and vaunted opening? Embarrassing.

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Also makes you think the guy wasn't that smart if he thought taking a plane inside Russia was a good idea after shooting down several helicopters and getting people killed. It is amusing seeing pro-Ukrainians suddenly having a hard-on for wagnerite threats after spending months calling them "the only actual nazis in this war".

Lancet hit an Ukranian BUK-M1. Probably old footage since it is too green and Buks are largely non-existant at this point


Bradley burns down after being hit by an FPV drone

sheogorath said:

Lancet hit an Ukranian BUK-M1. Probably old footage since it is too green and Buks are largely non-existant at this point

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1694617058141671816

Bradley burns down after being hit by an FPV drone

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1694614311694717420

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Maybe a stupid question, but why does the Lancet aims for the lower part of the vehicle - in fact it does not look like an actual kill, but only a hit - and not to the missiles above, which may cause a much larger explosion?

Deino said:

Maybe a stupid question, but why does the Lancet aims for the lower part of the vehicle - in fact it does not look like an actual kill, but only a hit - and not to the missiles above, which may cause a much larger explosion?

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To cause Immobilization. A static target is always easier for artillery forces than a mobile one. Bonus if they are trying to recover damaged vehicles, which serve as baits.