The War in the Ukraine

gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
That was the day Russia launched 11 iskanders and all were intercepted. Believe it or not missile on missile hit does not disintegrate both objects big huge chunks survive and rain down.
It is pretty obvious the Ukrainians have issues even properly tracking those missiles. On the day the Russians fired two Kinzhal missiles the Ukrainians claimed to have shot down six of them. They are basically tracking decoys.

There is also plenty of evidence of PAC-3 interceptors crashing pretty much intact several times. So the concept all missiles launched lead to interceptions is clear evident BS.

The Ukrainian government has a clear track record of claiming more interceptions than missiles fired by the opposing side. And then there are the magic Russian missiles which seem to be able to hit more than one target. Since the Russians consistently hit more targets than amount of non-intercepted Russian missiles claimed by Ukraine.
 

LawLeadsToPeace

Senior Member
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
Registered Member
Photo is shopped, here's a side by side comparison:
View attachment 113624

Original photo:
View attachment 113625
There's a further photoshop of this photo with one less axial that's circulating:

View attachment 113626
Pro-Russian sources seem to think this disproves it's a S400. I don't know about all the different flavours of S300 to know how to tell command vehicle apart, anyone care to give their opinion?
A user found the source of the photos:

Please ADD your source. Otherwise it may be counted as claims without credible evidence. However your post won’t be deleted as one of the rules stated that this thread should be used for debunking or proving claims and military propaganda.
 

Virtup

Junior Member
Registered Member
That was the day Russia launched 11 iskanders and all were intercepted. Believe it or not missile on missile hit does not disintegrate both objects big huge chunks survive and rain down.
Bro did you see that last picture ? That's the entire missile ! Also, notice the flames in the explosion. I don't know if patriot missiles have an exploding warhead, so that could be either rocket fuel, explosive in the warhead, or both.
 

HighGround

Senior Member
Registered Member
View attachment 113639

See ,mate , I try to explain the elements of the above radar equation.

The Pt and Pmin could be claimed as "magic invisible sauce" , the gain and the wavelength is simply parameter of the antenna.
No magic sauce here .
Now, we can go into the details of the Gain
View attachment 113640

If we jump back to the original equation, and replace the G with the full function then we will get the waelength canceled out in the divident , get a lambda sqaure in the divisor , and the antenna size and efficiency in the divident , both on sqare.

MEans doubling the antenna size and efficiency (geometrical tolerances during manufacturing) will yield 16 times bigger result ,but increase the power doublefold, and increase the sensitivity doublefold increase the overal performance only four times.


See, magic sauce doesn't have too much effect.

What "magic sauce" are you referencing to?


And reminder :
30N6-vs-MPQ-53-A.jpg


64N6-vs-SPY-1-A.jpg

How could be spelled more ways: The USA patriots in Kiev has inferrior performacne compared to the S-300 that they had ?

Ukraine needs 2-6times more patriot than S-300 to stay in the game.
Are you ever going to actually reference specifications that are relevant to your claims?
What is the power of the AN/MPQ-65 radar? What is the actual size?

I tracked down your sourcing used for the images,

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First of all, the picture used for reference is an older AN/MPQ-53 radar, I don't know if the newer versions of the Patriot are different in size, but all information reports that there was a significant improvements in the radar elements, with the newest version being an AESA GaN radar.

Second of all, the source provides no information on the Patriot radar performance. Literally none. The source also avoids saying that the S-300 radar is superior in performance to the Patriot radar it used for comparison.

Third, I don't see what relevance the 64N6E Big Bird radar has in Ukraine. As far as I know, Ukraine does not possess any S-300 variant that would have such an installation in its complex.

Given how little I've been able to find about the actual radar size, its power, or literally any useful technical characteristic, are you still going to insist that the S-300 is better than Patriot's AN/MPQ-65? You have provided no proof to do so.

I've followed Russian military for years now, since 2014. Even on Russian boards, I've seen very little definitive proof that concretely showed how S-300s radar compared to the Patriot's. In part because, the systems are not direct analogues to each other. In other parts, because the term itself "better" is such a nebulous one.
 

pmc

Major
Registered Member
Ukraine want platform with 180km AAM and will still need dispersion and protection with air defense.
I think Eurofighter better solution for Ukraine. old F-16 i dont think can exploit this range of missile and any fighter flying with external fuel tanks will take more time to climb to altitude to maximize range of missile. this gives more time for getting it tracked.
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At the same time, the brigadier general said that "the enemy does not have advantages as such, tactical or operational, in the air due to the fact that Ukraine has received quite powerful assistance from partner countries: radar detection stations, surveillance, anti-aircraft missile systems, and everyone sees in practice how these complexes work and what percentage of targets are hit."
However, Russian Aerial Forces are currently armed with Su-35 and MiG-31BM aircraft, which are capable of launching long-range missiles, and Ukraine does not yet have such weapons.

"If only we had a platform that could use, for example, American AIM-120 air-to-air missiles – they have a range of about 180 kilometres – we would simply not allow them to approach the borders at a distance [close enough] to launching these missiles," Holubtsov said.

Answering the question of how difficult it will be to hide F-16 fighter jets on the territory of Ukraine so that Russian missiles and drones do not reach them, the representative of the Air Force Command said: "Just hiding the aircraft will not work. I think that here it will be necessary to look for a comprehensive approach, disguise and disperse, and move them from airfield to airfield. And the second approach is that it will still be necessary to use some of the anti-aircraft missile systems to cover these airfields."
 

sheogorath

Major
Registered Member
Bro did you see that last picture ? That's the entire missile ! Also, notice the flames in the explosion. I don't know if patriot missiles have an exploding warhead, so that could be either rocket fuel, explosive in the warhead, or both.

PAC-3 MSE come with an extra HE warhead for use against jets, so it wouldn't be out of the ordinary for it to explode.
 

defenceman

Junior Member
Registered Member
Ukraine want platform with 180km AAM and will still need dispersion and protection with air defense.
I think Eurofighter better solution for Ukraine. old F-16 i dont think can exploit this range of missile and any fighter flying with external fuel tanks will take more time to climb to altitude to maximize range of missile. this gives more time for getting it tracked.
Hi
so basically airforce representative want to add more PAC3 in the package of F16s too
beside the 180km range missile if I’m not wrong at some stage Ukrainian airforce might
be looking for F18 or Typhoons to tackle with Mig31 & Su35
thank you
 

Anlsvrthng

Captain
Registered Member
The single axle one looks like a stable diffusion or similar text to image software for me .

If I have to bet then the single axle is the fake.

Given how little I've been able to find about the actual radar size, its power, or literally any useful technical characteristic, are you still going to insist that the S-300 is better than Patriot's AN/MPQ-65? You have provided no proof to do so.

I've followed Russian military for years now, since 2014. Even on Russian boards, I've seen very little definitive proof that concretely showed how S-300s radar compared to the Patriot's. In part because, the systems are not direct analogues to each other. In other parts, because the term itself "better" is such a nebulous one.
Read the math part, if too complex I can describe it in details.
Not that complex.
 

Right_People

Junior Member
Registered Member
Ukraine want platform with 180km AAM and will still need dispersion and protection with air defense.
I think Eurofighter better solution for Ukraine. old F-16 i dont think can exploit this range of missile and any fighter flying with external fuel tanks will take more time to climb to altitude to maximize range of missile. this gives more time for getting it tracked.
Good luck with that.
The price of an EF is 125 million., and I doubt any Euro country will give that away.
European air forces are falling apart.
Most of the German planes can't fly, a good segment of the Spanish air force are 30+ year old F-18s ...
The situation is generally the same for the whole continent.

It is still a fourth generation aircraft, spare parts are likely to be expensive, and available in small numbers.
What I don't know is if the EF can operate on low maintenance runways, being an aircraft developed after the cold war I would imagine not.
Which brings us to the problem of ground attack as we saw recently with the 5, probably Polish Su-24s that Russia destroyed on the ground.
 
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