The War in the Ukraine

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SolarWarden

Junior Member
Registered Member
gelgoog said:
refrain from including political and here provocative comments!
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What you believe is irrelevant because the Russians believe the opposite. If Russia really used 3 Kinzhals and cruise missiles just to take out the Patriot and we find out the next morning it wasn't taken out thn the Patriot did its job, eh?

Btw this is exactly what I was expecting the first time Russia attacked the Patriot battery but I guess their first attack was a probing attack to see exactly what it would do against just one kinzhal. Russia is probably going to continue mass attack on Patriot battery and even if Russia launches 30 missiles of a mix of kinzhal and cruise missiles on its next attack and 29 get intercepted then it's a win for Russia if one takes it out. It will make world headlines that Russia took out a Patriot battery.
 
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supersnoop

Major
Registered Member
SolarWarden said:
What you believe is irrelevant because the Russians believe the opposite. If Russia really used 3 Kinzhals and cruise missiles just to take out the Patriot and we find out the next morning it wasn't taken out thn the Patriot did its job, eh?

Btw this is exactly what I was expecting the first time Russia attacked the Patriot battery but I guess their first attack was a probing attack to see exactly what it would do against just one kinzhal. Russia is probably going to continue mass attack on Patriot battery and even if Russia launches 30 missiles of a mix of kinzhal and cruise missiles on its next attack and 29 get intercepted then it's a win for Russia if one takes it out. It will make world headlines that Russia took out a Patriot battery.
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Patriot doesn’t have a good track record.
PAC-1 - 0% success in Gulf War
PAC-2 - some successes, also confirmed kills of RAF Tornado and USN Hornet, one battery knocked out by HARM
PAC-3 - withdrawn from Israeli service, not seen as effective or cost efficient. KSA famously using Patriots successfully against Shaheed type drones at 100X cost.

Doesn’t mean it can’t do the job, but it’s not any more deadly than S-300, IRIS-T, NASAMS, or even ancient i-HAWK.
 
plawolf

plawolf

Lieutenant General
gelgoog said:
Super duper NATO air defense working as well as expected over Kiev.
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1658287607938162690
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1658282503537594369

It cannot even intercept most of the subsonic missiles. And we are supposed to believe the Patriot shot down a Kinzhal.
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Either the Ukrainians are doing a terrible job of dispersing the launchers, or the first video doesn’t look like PAC since those usually only have 4 missiles per launcher. To get 30 launches from such a tight frame would mean Ukraine needed to have clustered at least 8 launchers close together and that’s just too stupid to take seriously. Some of the flight profiles are also kinda interesting, and makes me wonder if maybe the Israelis slipped Ukraine some Iron Dome under the radar?
 
plawolf

plawolf

Lieutenant General
Totoro said:
16 Pac3 missiles can fit on a single launcher. So if two launchers (for whatever reason) would be clustered together, then one could indeed get a video like thst one, with 30 launches coming from the nearly same spot .
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But Ukraine didn’t get PAC3s.
 
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Totoro

Major
VIP Professional
plawolf said:
But Ukraine didn’t get PAC3s.
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A) what other system that has connections to Ukraine can fit so many missiles to so few lsunchers?

B) those alleged leaked US documents said PAC3 was indeed given to Ukraine.

I mean, there is also a case for no pac3 but indications for that seem even more flimsy than the indications that point to Ukraine getting pac3.
 
H

HighGround

Senior Member
Registered Member
SolarWarden said:
What you believe is irrelevant because the Russians believe the opposite. If Russia really used 3 Kinzhals and cruise missiles just to take out the Patriot and we find out the next morning it wasn't taken out thn the Patriot did its job, eh?
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Uh yes. Did it's job at an exorbitant cost. This is not a favorable trade in terms of cost. Especially long-term, not without Congress passing another aid package. That 40 billion isn't going to last forever. This is all assuming that Ukraine actually intercepted everything. Ukraine has quite the track record on lying about the effectiveness of its air defenses.

drowingfish said:
yes i was referring to that video as well. even if the patriots were not hit, the economics of war is simply not sustainable for ukraine at this rate. it seems that russia's production of precision munitions has finally picked up, and to defend against a sea of cheap FAB's with patriot is simply not going to work. if ukraine wants to do their counteroffensive maybe its better to do it now than later, the more they wait the more munitions russia will have to hit them with. the storm shadows acquired from britian should also be used on russian factories and munitions stockpiles, rather than symbolically hitting the kerch bridge again.
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It's not the Ukrainian economy Russia is fighting. This is all contingent on how much longer the West is willing to support Ukraine.
 
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SolarWarden

Junior Member
Registered Member
HighGround said:
Uh yes. Did it's job at an exorbitant cost. This is not a favorable trade in terms of cost. Especially long-term, not without Congress passing another aid package. That 40 billion isn't going to last forever. This is all assuming that Ukraine actually intercepted everything. Ukraine has quite the track record on lying about the effectiveness of its air defenses.



It's not the Ukrainian economy Russia is fighting. This is all contingent on how much longer the West is willing to support Ukraine.
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The Patriot battery is $1.1 billion (likely more since it's German battery)and it got targeted by 6 kinzhal and other missiles launching $150 million in missiles and you're saying it wasn't a favorable trade? Lol.
 
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